The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[DCI]

What if the police seized Sadie in a nutshell and made sure through torture that she'd shut up about torture ? Would Pink C. Cat driving a black limousine help her out of this nightmare?

So you admit torture, is still used in Portugal, Anne.

[sadie]

Are you sure "Not a single soul of that village stands by those false assumptions about that"?

Do you have a link to this forensic evidence, Luz?

Only last night I came across a website saying how most of the Figueira villagers supported Leonor against the PJ. with lovely photographs of the family and their very pleasant home.  Clean and neat au contraire to the PJs assertions.  Family all clean and neat too.

Few would dare say it publicly tho.  The sort of torture Laeonor and Michael Cook endured could finish a frail person off.

Yep, Luz let's have your forensic eveidence

[AnneGuedes]

So you admit torture, is still used in Portugal, Anne.

I was kidding, not very funny I'm afraid.
If Sadie was in Portugal and publicly denounced torture in the middle of Praça do Comercio, she would probably be kindly advised to stop it. If she insisted, she would be kindly invited to go back to her room and if she resisted she would be kindly sent to some cuckoo nest.
From where are you accusing Portugal of using torture, DCI ? From the UK ?

[Carana]

I almost know nothing about this case, Carana, but you do. Does this question suggest there was no forensic at least solid evidence and that Mrs Cipriano was convicted mainly on the basis of a confession that had been obtained through torture?
If so, why would magistrates and policemen be united in condemning an innocent woman ?
To prove the rest of the planet that dictatorship time had gone ?
Can this all be the "Amaral effect" ?

I was wondering what forensics Luz was referring to.

Despite this apparently bloody massacre, there was so little of it that they couldn't even determine who it belonged to. From reading that legal summary, I don't see what wouldn't be comptaible with a nicked finger. There was so little of it that the forensic lab never established who it belonged to. Some of it was of animal origin. And I don't see why a speck of unidentified blood on a freezer drawer means that they'd tried to stuff a body in it.

[sadie]

Wasn't there a bit of dna mentioned from one of Joanas siblings?

[AnneGuedes]

I was wondering what forensics Luz was referring to.

Despite this apparently bloody massacre, there was so little of it that they couldn't even determine who it belonged to. From reading that legal summary, I don't see what wouldn't be comptaible with a nicked finger. There was so little of it that the forensic lab never established who it belonged to. Some of it was of animal origin. And I don't see why a speck of unidentified blood on a freezer drawer means that they'd tried to stuff a body in it.

Have you read all the Cipriano files, Carana ? And all documents well translated ?
Luz was right in saying you can't convict someone on the basis of his/her confession.
Cases of false confessions are many and not always because X or Y wants to see his/her name in the media. Sometimes they just can't stand the "interview" any more, they say anything to be left alone for some time.
I reckon that, apart from Mr Amaral and co, your suspicions concern also judges and I find it really worrying.
If a British fool is condemned to pay a substantive amount for contempt of court though the effect of his ludicrous words was almost nul, what about people on forums suggesting the Public Ministry doesn't respect the Codigo de procedimento penal ?
Are you criticizing Portugal because it's too risky to criticize any institution in the UK ?
Please don't condescend to there having some decent Portugueses, those you know.

[sadie]

So you cant convict anyone on the basis of their confession?

So waht did they convict Leonor and Joao on?

[Eleanor]

The Confession was produced in Court, illegally, so I read.

And what about The Judge who believed she was Innocent?  No one seems to want to talk about him

[DCI]

I was kidding, not very funny I'm afraid.
If Sadie was in Portugal and publicly denounced torture in the middle of Praça do Comercio, she would probably be kindly advised to stop it. If she insisted, she would be kindly invited to go back to her room and if she resisted she would be kindly sent to some cuckoo nest.
From where are you accusing Portugal of using torture, DCI ? From the UK ?

Kidding were you, I didn't find it funny.

You ask me where I'm accusing Portugal of using torture, when you insinuated, Sadie could be tortured

You can't keep moving the goal posts to suit what you say, Anne.

Take this from today's CM. of the stupidity of Portuguese courts

Cavaco Silva called thief

€ 1,300 fine for insult
The man of 25 years, on Sunday, insulted the President of the Republic, Cavaco Silva, during a visit to the exhibition Day military of Portugal, Elvas, was in court yesterday sentenced to a fine of 1300 euros for libel .

Carlos Costal called "thief" the Head of State. "I told him that he was being robbed every day and that was it was going to work. But it was a political rant. Condemnation is unfair," says the man, a native of Campo Maior, who was arrested. Carlos was accompanied by his wife and two minor children. "There is so much opposition in the country, and so many offenses, and is just what happens to my husband one of these things", said the woman, Ximena Costal. The man is sorry and will appeal the court's decision.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/ultima-hora/1300--de-multa-por-insulto

[Eleanor]

Kidding were you, I didn't find it funny.

You ask me where I'm accusing Portugal of using torture, when you insinuated, Sadie could be tortured

You can't keep moving the goal posts to suit what you say, Anne.

Take this from today's CM. of the stupidity of your courts

Cavaco Silva called thief

€ 1,300 fine for insult
The man of 25 years, on Sunday, insulted the President of the Republic, Cavaco Silva, during a visit to the exhibition Day military of Portugal, Elvas, was in court yesterday sentenced to a fine of 1300 euros for libel .

Goodness me.  Whatever happened to Free Speach?

[DCI]

Only last night I came across a website saying how most of the Figueira villagers supported Leonor against the PJ. with lovely photographs of the family and their very pleasant home.  Clean and neat au contraire to the PJs assertions.  Family all clean and neat too.

Few would dare say it publicly tho.  The sort of torture Laeonor and Michael Cook endured could finish a frail person off.

Yep, Luz let's have your forensic eveidence

Weren't we made to believe there home was a hovel?


 

[AnneGuedes]

the stupidity of your courts

What do you mean with "your" ?

[DCI]

What do you mean with "your" ?

Ammended 

[AnneGuedes]

According to artigo 328.º do Código Penal, "who insults or defames the President of the Republic or who constitutionnaly substitutes him/her is punished with up to 3 years jail or a fine.
This is the function, not the man, which is concerned. The President is elected by a majority and then turns into the President of all people of a country.

[Benice]

QUOTE FROM
Supreme Court of Justice - 'Joana case' ruling - Part III
13 July 2009 | Posted by astro Leave a Comment
(on how to evaluate evidence, and on the reconstitution)


"After “going through” the witness evidence, we verify that there is no direct evidence of the facts, namely due to anyone seeing the crime being committed.

Even more, there is even no direct evidence of the homicide, because the minor’s dead body has not appeared''.