The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

[Mrs. B]

Please note that Police in Portugal are not equivalent to the President of Portugal. Several guilty verdicts have been handed over in Torture cases to serving officers of law enforcement, are you implying that the judges who handed out those sentences are acting against Portuguese law?

[sadie]

Weren't we made to believe there home was a hovel?


 

Thank you Dc1.  I had other photos too, showing Leonors home, but I dont know where they are.

Leonors home is a damned sight tidier than mine

Disinformation all the time

Just propaganda.  disgusting, but the suckers suck it up.

[Carana]

Have you read all the Cipriano files, Carana ? And all documents well translated ?
Luz was right in saying you can't convict someone on the basis of his/her confession.
Cases of false confessions are many and not always because X or Y wants to see his/her name in the media. Sometimes they just can't stand the "interview" any more, they say anything to be left alone for some time.
I reckon that, apart from Mr Amaral and co, your suspicions concern also judges and I find it really worrying.
If a British fool is condemned to pay a substantive amount for contempt of court though the effect of his ludicrous words was almost nul, what about people on forums suggesting the Public Ministry doesn't respect the Codigo de procedimento penal ?
Are you criticizing Portugal because it's too risky to criticize any institution in the UK ?
Please don't condescend to there having some decent Portugueses, those you know.

I'm not criticising the Portuguese judiciary, but miscarriages of justice can - and do - happen in every country. Some people have served long sentences in the UK, for example, for crimes that they simply did not commit.

When these do occur in the UK, they are openly discussed.

[Mrs. B]

The torture related cases we are talking about have already been through the courts, it was the Portuguese judiciary who established that the crime of TORTURE had taken place, in the Portimao police station by persons "unknown". It was also established that Amaral made untruthful statements to the court. It is certainly not against any law to discuss those cases, not in Portugal or anywhere else in Europe.

The evidence presented in the Cipriano case are in the public domain & we are allowed to talk about that too.

[DCI]

The torture related cases we are talking about have already been through the courts, it was the Portuguese judiciary who established that the crime of TORTURE had taken place, in the Portimao police station by persons "unknown". It was also established that Amaral made untruthful statements to the court. It is certainly not against any law to discuss those cases, not in Portugal or anywhere else in Europe.

The evidence presented in the Cipriano case are in the public domain & we are allowed to talk about that too.

Yes they are. Sofia's complaint about Amaral's threats was also allowed to be bought into court, during Leonor's appeal.
So who was it, said it was fake?

Anne, knows nothing about this case, as she said herself. So it might pay Anne to read the files on it, before commenting.

[AnneGuedes]

When these do occur in the UK, they are openly discussed.

Well, not in Portugal anyhow. Is there an English for the Portuguese "Start by sweeping in front of your door" or is it an idiomatic expression ?

[Mrs. B]

Well, not in Portugal anyhow. Is there an English for the Portuguese "Start by sweeping in front of your door" or is it an idiomatic expression ?

The Cipriano case took place in Portugal, not in the UK, so why would we discuss the UK in reference to this case?

[AnneGuedes]

Yes they are. Sofia's complaint about Amaral's threats was also allowed to be bought into court, during Leonor's appeal.
So who was it, said it was fake?

Anne, knows nothing about this case, as she said herself. So it might pay Anne to read the files on it, before commenting.

I didn't comment the case but the fact it was commented on this forum, as it is clear the defence of Mrs Cipriano's rights isn't not the issue.

[AnneGuedes]

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
 For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Matthew 7:1-5

[Carana]

I didn't comment the case but the fact it was commented on this forum, as it is clear the defence of Mrs Cipriano's rights isn't not the issue.

For me, the mainissue is what happened to this little girl.

I'm perfectly aware that some families do kill their own children. However, every case is different and needs to be examined seperately.

As I said before, if they really are guilty of such horrific deeds, then they are where they should be: in prison serving a long sentence.

But what was the hard evidence in this case?

What if one or both were not guilty? Unless Joana fell down a manhole or otherwise disappeared by accident, it might mean that someone dangerous is still out there.

[Mrs. B]

Pardon, we're discussing the Cipriano case, where does the bible come into it?

[Puffin]

Pardon, we're discussing the Cipriano case, where does the bible come into it?

It doesn't in any way, shape or form.  Some posters might find it distasteful to quote religious texts.

[Mrs. B]

It doesn't in any way, shape or form.  Some posters might find it distasteful to quote religious texts.

Don't personally find it distasteful, merely intriguing, especially from self confessed atheists.

[AnneGuedes]

For me, the main issue is what happened to this little girl.

What other little girls' fates over the planet are you interest in, Carana ?

[faithlilly]

Only last night I came across a website saying how most of the Figueira villagers supported Leonor against the PJ. with lovely photographs of the family and their very pleasant home.  Clean and neat au contraire to the PJs assertions.  Family all clean and neat too.

Few would dare say it publicly tho.  The sort of torture Laeonor and Michael Cook endured could finish a frail person off.

Yep, Luz let's have your forensic eveidence

This is a woman who has six children, most who were farmed out to relatives, by five different fathers and a missing eight year old daughter with signs of sexual abuse of her underwear.

It is easy to clean up your home sadie, a damn sight harder to clean up your past.