Is SY all it's cracked up to be ?

[Mr Gray]

Angelo has posted correctly that Sy are one of the largest police forces in the world and therefore mistakes will be made. Your attempt to show that they are generally incompetent is pathetic and driven by your hatred of the McCanns..

So they found no explosives at forest gate......well done to them for admitting it. A corrupt police force would have planted evidence. The PJ may well have planted cadaverine contaminant in 5a...we know they have  a reputation for dishonesty.

Portuguese police found nothing in the search of the cipriano house...didn't stop them getting a conviction

[Mr Gray]

The truth is that you have tried to discredit SY and failed miserably. That's because  they are one of the best police forces in the world...

[Mr Gray]

Oh come now good sir where has your head been ?
from wikipedia
"The convictions of the Maguire Seven were quashed in 1991. The court held that members of the London Metropolitan Police beat some of the Seven into confessing to the crimes and withheld information that would have cleared them"

Now check out the Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4 and the Maguires to see what the British police are capable of the Met included.
Whilst they do not remain behind bars they were in for a goodly time having been beaten and tortured before having heir convictions declared unsafe.

tellingly both yours and stephens post deal with anti terrorist situations which are hardly the norm. I had first hand knowledge of Birmingham and feeling s were running very high with the number of people killed and maimed. Whilst I don't condone the actions of the police...some of them may have been on duty..as I was at the casualty dept at the general hospital. They would have seen sights that would seriously affect them.


Not only that but lessons were learnt and the serious crime squad was disbanded.

We may be entering another period of terrorists activity and the police have to act...sometimes they will get it wrong...innocent people will be arrested...but the public have to be protected and it is to SY and our own police forces that we will be looking to for protection

[sadie]

tellingly both yours and stephens post deal with anti terrorist situations which are hardly the norm. I had first hand knowledge of Birmingham and feeling s were running very high with the number of people killed and maimed. Whilst I don't condone the actions of the police...some of them may have been on duty..as I was at the casualty dept at the general hospital. They would have seen sights that would seriously affect them.


Not only that but lessons were learnt and the serious crime squad was disbanded.

We may be entering another period of terrorists activity and the police have to act...sometimes they will get it wrong...innocent people will be arrested...but the public have to be protected and it is to SY and our own police forces that we will be looking to for protection

 
I have two friends who seperately were in that bombing.  Fortunately neither was injured.

Well done for being there to help the injured.

[Mr Gray]

So is it fair to judge the police on their reaction to terrorists...never mind the police I actually remember innocent irish members of the public being attacked...feelings ran that high...this taken from wiki...

As the bombings were blamed on the IRA, anti-Irish feeling rose in parts of Great Britain. There was a wave of firebombings, bomb threats and attacks on Irish people and Irish-owned businesses. In Birmingham, the Irish Centre was attacked and there was "talk of English workers dropping bricks on the heads of Irish Catholic workmates on building sites and in factories". Because of the anger against Irish people in Birmingham after the bombings, the IRA's Army Council placed the city "strictly off-limits" to IRA active service units.

So the point I am making is that it is unrealistic to judge  a police force on its reaction to terrorists...which is what this thread is doing

[Brietta]

There are bad apples in every barrel the problem is when no-one does anything about them; the Met has had its problems and there has been a concerted effort of late in Portugal to curb excesses with officers being prosecuted and some even being jailed for breaking the law.
In this discussion the Met is being called into question for the simple reason it is making as much progress as is possible in Madeleine McCann's case and some people do not approve of that.

[sadie]

There are bad apples in every barrel the problem is when no-one does anything about them; the Met has had its problems and there has been a concerted effort of late in Portugal to curb excesses with officers being prosecuted and some even being jailed for breaking the law.
In this discussion the Met is being called into question for the simple reason it is making as much progress as is possible in Madeleine McCann's case and some people do not approve of that.

And I wonder why ?

There has to be a reason

There always is

[stephen25000]

Let's not forget the fiasco of thee Stephen Lawrence case for example.

[Mr Gray]

There is no evidence on this thread to show how SY ranks against other police forces..  fact...you claim to understand statistics so you know that is true....on that point it has failed miserably.

By all means post the rate of crime solving in each country...and the level of confessions by suspects...anectdotally I would expect that to be significantly higher in portugal

[Mr Gray]

Let's not forget the fiasco of thee Stephen Lawrence case for example.

Your posts demonstrate nothing...statistically they are totally flawed

[Alice Purjorick]

tellingly both yours and stephens post deal with anti terrorist situations which are hardly the norm. I had first hand knowledge of Birmingham and feeling s were running very high with the number of people killed and maimed. Whilst I don't condone the actions of the police...some of them may have been on duty..as I was at the casualty dept at the general hospital. They would have seen sights that would seriously affect them.


Not only that but lessons were learnt and the serious crime squad was disbanded.

We may be entering another period of terrorists activity and the police have to act...sometimes they will get it wrong...innocent people will be arrested...but the public have to be protected and it is to SY and our own police forces that we will be looking to for protection

The West Midlands mob were disbanded but the Maguires suffered at the hands of The Met.
You are now trying to duck out by saying terrorism is a special case where the norms of legal due process do not count.
I would suggest you read some of Gareth Peirces essays on that score. ( I know you have read them all).
The issue was "have The Met beaten confessions out of people?" Answer "yes" demonstrably so. Either obtaining a confession by beating and torture is acceptable or it isn't. It is fatuous to suggest it operates on a sliding scale. "There I wuz" stories notwithstanding.

[Mr Gray]

Oh come now good sir where has your head been ?
from wikipedia
"The convictions of the Maguire Seven were quashed in 1991. The court held that members of the London Metropolitan Police beat some of the Seven into confessing to the crimes and withheld information that would have cleared them"

Now check out the Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4 and the Maguires to see what the British police are capable of the Met included.
Whilst they do not remain behind bars they were in for a goodly time having been beaten and tortured before having heir convictions declared unsafe.

There is a major flaw in your argument.....the cases you cited happened 40 years ago...things have changed in the UK..It speaks volumes that you have to go back 40 years to find a case to criticise the uk police

[Alice Purjorick]

You are wriggling like a fish on a hook good sir. Why the time limit on truth? You believe it doesn't count because it was 40 years ago?
You then say quite incorrectly I am criticising the police whereas I am merely stating proven facts to show what the British are capable of.
You then say things have changed in the UK. So as you wish to believe events of 40 years ago mysteriously do not count
let us come further forward in time and consider:
The killing by police of an unarmed civilian on public transport because it was believed quite erroneously he was a terrorist The arrest of Muslims, their incarceration and poor treatment in Belmarsh because it looked as though they might be going to do something. It was never proven most were going to.
Every time there is a cock up the standard response from some talking head in officialdom is "lessons have been learned" Oh yes! but only in the same sense as Epaminondas and his Auntie. The cock ups continue.
I would suggest you stop trying to portray the McCann case UK / Portugal like a Hopalong Cassidy movie with black hats and white hats. You may then be taken more seriously.

[Mr Gray]

You are wriggling like a fish on a hook good sir. Why the time limit on truth? You believe it doesn't count because it was 40 years ago?
You then say quite incorrectly I am criticising the police whereas I am merely stating proven facts to show what the British are capable of.
You then say things have changed in the UK. So as you wish to believe events of 40 years ago mysteriously do not count
let us come further forward in time and consider:
The killing by police of an unarmed civilian on public transport because it was believed quite erroneously he was a terrorist The arrest of Muslims, their incarceration and poor treatment in Belmarsh because it looked as though they might be going to do something. It was never proven most were going to.
Every time there is a cock up the standard response from some talking head in officialdom is "lessons have been learned" Oh yes! but only in the same sense as Epaminondas and his Auntie. The cock ups continue.
I would suggest you stop trying to portray the McCann case UK / Portugal like a Hopalong Cassidy movie with black hats and white hats. You may then be taken more seriously.

black hats and white hats is exactly what you are guilty of...same as everybody else

continuing to cite terrorists cases to criticise SY...How do you counter those who are prepared to hack off someone's head and blow up hundreds of innocents...they will be here soon I'm afraid. You will be telling me next they have never had internment in Portugal...they haven't needed it.

To fight terrorism requires desperate measures...innocent people will be arrested...the option is to allow thousands of deaths in the uk

[Mr Gray]

SY are being blamed for the shooting of innocent civilians.

remember...Uk police have never wanted to be armed for very good reasons...terrorists and criminals have brought guns to the streets of the UK forcing the arming of the police...that's where the blame lies