Author Topic: Lies about Sheila's mental health  (Read 21241 times)

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Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2014, 01:42:03 PM »
It still remains physically impossible for Sheila to have committed the murders ergo Bamber is guilty!

Offline John

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2014, 10:53:02 AM »
It still remains physically impossible for Sheila to have committed the murders ergo Bamber is guilty!

Exactly, by introducing the fake phone call from dad Nevill, Jeremy Bamber effectively shot himself in the foot.  Fact is, it was him or Sheila who did it and Sheila is ruled out by so much hard evidence.

Jeremy Bamber is guilty...99%
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2014, 03:36:57 PM »
Tim/John

If It was physically impossible for SC to have committed the murders and JB shot himself in the foot by inventing the infamous phone call then on what basis did the CCRC refer JB's case to CoA?  My understanding is that the referral was based on the silencer evidence being potentially discredited.  Surely if other evidence was strong ie that it was physically impossible for SC to have carried out the murders, or that evidence existed showing that NB did not make the said call then the CCRC would not have referred?

In the absence of satellite/digital technology there's no evidence to confirm the call was made or wasn't made?  We can speculate and analyse it until the cows come home but we will be no further forward today than the defense/prosecution were circa 3 decades ago.  Surely a conviction should not be based on whether or not a phone call was made when there's no evidence to confirm either way?

I accept that on the surface the prosecution's case is compelling but when I dig deeper I have to run with the defense.

The defense was largely based on SC's mental illness.  In this regard the main expert witness was Dr Ferguson.  IMO he was conflicted: he treated the adoptive mother, June, in 1959 and then again in 1982.  He treated the adopted daughter, Sheila, in 1983 and 1985.  There's something very wrong here in many respects.

Then we have the under statement of under statements in the CoA document where June's mental illness is written off as an obsession with religion.  Dr F's WS states that June's mental illness circa 1959 was based on severe depression caused by her decision to adopt SC.  No mention of this at trial or CoA hearing  >@@(*&)

14. June Bamber was also 61 years old. Religion had always played a strong part in her life. In her latter years her interest in this regard had to an extent come to dominate her thinking, to a point that might have been thought to be obsessive. In 1982, she received treatment at a psychiatric hospital in Northampton.


Dr Ferguson - June and Sheila's psychiatrist 1959 - 1985
« on: February 28, 2012, 08:28:AM »

Dr Ferguson (Dr F) was a consultant psychiatrist with many years experience.

1. Upon treating June in 1959 for severe depression caused by her decision to adopt Sheila in 1957, Dr F should have been aware that Sheila was at risk of an 'attachment disorder'.  (An attachment disorder is the failure to bond with the primary caregiver resulting in various emotional and psychological problems as evidenced throughout Sheila's troubled life.  It is a basic psychological disorder analogous with raised blood pressure in the medical world).  Furthermore Sheila would have been at particular risk having already been separated from one primary caregiver ie her birth mother. 

2. Did Dr F recommend follow-up treatment in 1959 to ensure Sheila was not adversely affected?

3. When Sheila arrived in Dr F's clinic in 1983, some 24 years after June's treatment for depression, he
should not have been at all surprised to a) find her there and b) find her there with the issues she presented - one of which was commenting on June's lack of warmth towards her.  All would have been highly predictable and the obvious outcome of 1959.  All exacerbated by adoption psychology which Dr F should have at least been aware of although he makes no reference to this.

4. Was Sheila schizophrenic?  If she was, then given the above it is highly likely that it was the result of an attachment disorder, adoption psychology and her difficult relationship with June ie social rather than biology alone.  Neuroscientists have found that early trauma, as suffered by Sheila, can change brain chemistry.  Psychologists are also much more in agreement now that social factors play a big part in determining whether or not a person develops schizophrenia.

5. Dr F's witness statement refers to the fact that he was mindful of Neville paying the cost of Sheila's private treatment.  Was Dr F conflicted?  Who was his duty of care to during the period 1959 - 1985, the adoptive parents paying his fees or the emotionally abused adoptee?

6. Was Sheila aware that June suffered severe depression in 1959 as a result of adopting her?  Is this something Dr F discussed with Sheila or witheld?

7. Having read Dr F's witness statement and the court of appeal document '02 he seems less than forthcoming.  At the court of appeal hearing '02 there is no mention of June's depression in 1959 or the causes of it.  Overall he appears very reticent.

8. Sheila met her birth mother weeks before the murders.  When Dr F was asked what effect this might have on Sheila's mental state he said he didn't know.  At trial he stated that he found it difficult to conceptualise Sheila harming her children or Neville.  If he didn't know what effect meeting her birth mother would have on her mental state, just weeks before the murders, how could he be so sure this would not adversely affect Sheila's view of her children and Neville?

9. Had Jeremy have been acquitted the spotlight would have fallen on Dr F, professionally, for not appreciating the gravity of the situation and doing more from 1959 - 1985.

It strikes me that Sheila's mental illness/schizophrenia has largely been viewed as a random event ie having no connection with June's depression in 1959, her early social experiences, adoption psychology and lifelong difficult relationship with June. 





Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline puglove

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 09:12:49 PM »
Maybe Sheila was deeply affected by her adoption, and June's early depression (equally, Bamber could have been just as affected) but we can never know for sure. We DO know that Bamber is very motivated by greed - he admitted that was the reason for the caravan park break-in - and it's borne out by his recent cruel behaviour towards Daisy, who was doing her best to help him. And it can't be denied that Bamber had ample time to hide any incriminating evidence, while Sheila didn't. She couldn't have wiped the gun, yet her prints should have been all over it.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 10:52:21 PM »
Maybe Sheila was deeply affected by her adoption, and June's early depression (equally, Bamber could have been just as affected) but we can never know for sure. We DO know that Bamber is very motivated by greed - he admitted that was the reason for the caravan park break-in - and it's borne out by his recent cruel behaviour towards Daisy, who was doing her best to help him. And it can't be denied that Bamber had ample time to hide any incriminating evidence, while Sheila didn't. She couldn't have wiped the gun, yet her prints should have been all over it.

Well said as always Pugsy! And how did Sheila get the bullet oil and gunfire residue of her hands, body and clothing?

Holly you just have to look at the last CCRC appeal. The defence was given so much leeway to present a coherent case for Bamber. They were given extension after extension. The file was even closed and reopened. NGB & McKay were bigging the new evidence up saying that they really had something and perhaps Bamber was innocent after all!

What these legal professionals and all their American rent-an-expert produced was an absolute farce. I was embarrassed for them! The CCRC bent over backwards to accommodate Bamber's 'dream team' and all we could do is laugh out loud when the TV programme presented their codswallop new evidence ....... as laymen, we all asked "is that it?"

I do appreciate Sheila had periods of disturbing mental illness but she had never exhibited any violent tendencies and as Dr. Ferguson said, she would never have hurt her boys or her adored Daddy!

I am of the exactly the same opinion as the Appeal Court judges; the more I know about the case, the more I am absolutely convinced there isn't a snowballs chance in hell Bamber is innocent!

As you said yaself Holly, the evidence for guilt is compelling!  8@??)(

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2014, 12:18:42 PM »
Maybe Sheila was deeply affected by her adoption, and June's early depression (equally, Bamber could have been just as affected) but we can never know for sure. We DO know that Bamber is very motivated by greed - he admitted that was the reason for the caravan park break-in - and it's borne out by his recent cruel behaviour towards Daisy, who was doing her best to help him. And it can't be denied that Bamber had ample time to hide any incriminating evidence, while Sheila didn't. She couldn't have wiped the gun, yet her prints should have been all over it.

I understand from posters on Blue that SC was placed with foster carers when June was hospitalised in 1959 to treat severe depression caused by her decision to adopt SC?  I don't know how reliable this is but someone must have looked after SC?  I would have thought NB and PB could have managed between them?  To my mind this is the most important aspect of the case.  There is a positive correlation between early attachment experiences and psychopathy:

http://interpersonaabpri.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/paper-1_khetrapal.pdf

It is often said JB is a cold blooded killer/psychopath but there's no evidence of this:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

It strikes me that the early experiences of SC and JB in terms of attachment to a primary care giver are quite marked.  Perhaps further evidence of this/adoption experience is that SC sought out her birth mother and JB didn't until after his failed appeal in 2002.

If SC was responsible then I think she must have showered and changed her clothes.  There's some evidence to support this theory by way of the buckets.  If the clothes left to soak amounted to 2 pairs of knickers stained with menstrual blood and a pair of training bottoms then why two buckets?  The clothes would be left to soak in cold water so no chance of colours running.  Why 2 buckets (photo) or even 3 buckets (AE's WS)?  Why no ref to the buckets/clothing by raid team, SoC Officer or police photographer?  Why were these bloodied exhibits not taken away for analysis? 

JB initially said he broke into OCP to demonstrate lax security but when pushed came clean and said it was based on greed!?  Plenty of folk are greedy: bankers, MP's (expenses) even Peter Eaton based on BW's Stokenchurch report.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1045.msg29871#msg29871

Is there a positive correlation between murder and greed? 

It is clear from the soc photos of SC that her arm was moved.  EP confirmed they moved the rifle without wearing gloves.  Why was SC's fingerprint on the rifle?  If JB attempted to put her fingerprints on the rifle once deceased then why only one?  If SC moved the rifle early on in the evening after JB supposedly went bunny hunting then again why only one?   

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.







« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 08:33:12 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2014, 03:27:32 PM »
I understand from posters on Blue that SC was placed with foster carers when June was hospitalised in 1959 to treat severe depression caused by her decision to adopt SC?  I don't know how reliable this is but someone must have looked after SC?  I would have thought NB and PB could have managed between them?  To my mind this is the most important aspect of the case.  There is a positive correlation between early attachment experiences and psychopathy:

http://interpersonaabpri.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/paper-1_khetrapal.pdf

It is often said JB is a cold blooded killer/psychopath but there's no evidence of this:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

It strikes me that the early experiences of SC and JB in terms of attachment to a primary care giver are quite marked.  Perhaps further evidence of this/adoption experience is that SC sought out her birth mother and JB didn't until after his failed appeal in 2002.

None of which has any relevance to the murders.

If SC was responsible then I think she must have showered and changed her clothes.  There's some evidence to support this theory by way of the buckets.  If the clothes left to soak amounted to 2 pairs of knickers stained with menstrual blood and a pair of training bottoms then why two buckets?  The clothes would be left to soak in cold water so no chance of colours running.  Why 2 buckets (photo) or even 3 buckets (AE's WS)?  Why no ref to the buckets/clothing by raid team, SoC Officer or police photographer?  Why were these bloodied exhibits not taken away for analysis?
 

There is no reason why she would have showered and changed her clothes nor any evidence she did so.  he underwear show she bled in them mestrually and presumably the leggings might or might not have gotten a little blood from same.  She had a tampon inserted when killed.

Evidence she changed would be another nightgown found or even a sleepshirt she could have been wearing.  She would not have killed her faily topless.  The top is where GSR would be deposited and back spatter would primarily land.  There is no evidence at all she had on different clothes, bloody underwear would have her own blood so why would police take them?   They would be looking for nightgowns and tops.

JB initially said he broke into OCP to demonstrate lax security but when pushed came clean and said it was based on greed!?  Plenty of folk are greedy: bankers, MP's (expenses) even Peter Eaton based on BW's Stokenchurch report.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1045.msg29871#msg29871

Is there a positive correlation between murder and greed?

The primary motives for murder are greed, envy, anger/passion, revenge

It is clear from the soc photos of SC that her arm was moved.  EP confirmed they moved the rifle without wearing gloves.  Why was SC's fingerprint on the rifle?  If JB attempted to put her fingerprints on the rifle once deceased then why only one?  If SC moved the rifle early on in the evening after JB supposedly went bunny hunting then again why only one?   

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

It is not quite as easy to make sure someone's fingerprints get on something as people would like to think.  When the body dies oils that transfer fingerprints stop cleaning the skin.  (Yes we have natural oils that actually clean our skin and these oils leave our prints on objects) so it is harder to plant prints form a dead person.  Just putting the hand on won't necessarily leave many if any, you really need to push hard and he had to be careful how he touched her hands and arms because even with gloves if he transferred the blood on her arms then it would be obvious someone else was there manipulating her body.  So he had to be careful how he touched her arms and hands. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2014, 03:33:23 AM »
There is an existing thread which looks at mental health issues involving Sheila and the care of the twins.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4264.msg13704#msg13704
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2014, 10:03:46 PM »
There is an existing thread which looks at mental health issues involving Sheila and the care of the twins.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4264.msg13704#msg13704

Thank you John.

I have read through all the posts.  None of them make reference to June's mental illness 1959 and 1982.  I am unable to see June's and SC's mental illnesses as mutually exclusive.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2014, 10:14:18 PM »
Adam on Blue posted this up a few days ago.  Does anyone know anything about it?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-bid-freedom-6981683
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline ActualMat

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2014, 11:15:04 PM »
Adam on Blue posted this up a few days ago.  Does anyone know anything about it?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-bid-freedom-6981683


NGB posted about it. Won't do any good, Holly. SC's mental health problems were known about at trial. No matter how sick she was it can't damage any of the actual evidence that she is innocent.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2014, 10:03:28 AM »

NGB posted about it. Won't do any good, Holly. SC's mental health problems were known about at trial. No matter how sick she was it can't damage any of the actual evidence that she is innocent.

It wouldn't seem like a new ground but I'm not a lawyer.  Are you able to tell us what NGB said Mat? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline ActualMat

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2014, 02:20:52 PM »
It was on the board - that new documents had come to light regarding her mental health. I said that it doesn't matter if it's 1 box or a million - it can't dis-credit the evidence.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2014, 07:25:45 PM »
It was on the board - that new documents had come to light regarding her mental health. I said that it doesn't matter if it's 1 box or a million - it can't dis-credit the evidence.

The jury were aware SC was mentally ill.  This was the defenses main line of defense so I would think it would have to be quite compelling to override the silencer and JM's testimony albeit I believe both are unreliable.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2014, 09:22:07 PM »
It wouldn't seem like a new ground but I'm not a lawyer.  Are you able to tell us what NGB said Mat?

The bigger problem than trying to suggest it is new is trying to suggest mental health records could prove Jeremy didn't do it.  There is no ability for them to prove any such thing.

They need something to eat at the evidence used against Jeremy.  Suggesting Sheila could have done it because she had mental problems doesn't deal with any of the evidence that convicted him.   Eating away at the evidence that the Court of Appeals feels establishes his guilt is about the only way that his conviction would be vacated.

Trying to convince them that Sheila might have done it through more in depth discussion of her mental state isn't going to do that.

Evidence that contradicts Ferguson's testimony about her not discussing her family or something in that vein could be viewed as new. Even that would be unlikely to carry the day though.   

Unless they prove she could have shot herself none of that matters.  The testimony that she could not have shot herself is the most compelling evidence against him though there is plenty more.  All the potential motive in the world for Sheila to have done it though means nothing if she can't have shot herself.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli