Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[faithlilly]

Certainly.  It is a terribly simple thing to access.

If one types - operation rectangle - into a search engine ... one will arrive at a page where a choice can be made from various references ... choosing one will generally take one here https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf  it takes about thirty seconds max to arrive at ~ well it did when I tried it.
I can thoroughly recommend the technique to you.

If you have a real interest ... allow me to also recommend you to ... https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf
Both links appear in the forum on a quite a few occasions.  Good reading to you.

Excellent. Thank you.

[Robittybob1]

Is there any reason why you should have access to such footage?

That was the point they were making that the VRD alerts were backed by video proof.  Basically if there is no video we don't know if it really happened.

[Robittybob1]

How large a gap in both space & time should a cadaver dog be permitted between source & alert? Would a delay in alerting or a misinterpreted source of alert have an adverse effect on the collection of possible forensic evidence?

No because samples are only collected from places where Keela alerted to. AFAIK.  You can't test for cadaver odour.  In Eddie's case if there isn't a chunk of flesh in sight there is nothing to test for.

[misty]

No because samples are only collected from places where Keela alerted to. AFAIK.  You can test for cadaver odour.  In Eddie's case if there isn't a chunk of flesh in sight there is nothing to test for.

Keela had to have her nose very close to the source before she would alert. However, Grime stated that Eddie had alerted to the floor tiles , whereas his nose appears to be directed at the sofa fabric right before the barking.
Was Keela given the opportunity to examine the sofa at close quarters?
Was the cellular material beneath the floor tiles a chance finding rather than what Eddie actually alerted to?
Could realisation of a sofa alert have been useful to the investigation?

There is a method of testing for some elements of cadaver odour contaminant, not dissimilar to the methods used for his scent transfer pads as a training aid. It was used in the Casey Anthony case.

http://www.orlandomagazine.com/Blogs/Casey-Anthony-Trial/April-2011/You-want-Orders-with-those-Fryes/

*snipped*
 There are still outstanding motions the judge must rule on. They include plant root growth where Caylee’s remains were found, plus chloroform levels and air samples from the trunk of Casey’s car. State witness Dr. Arpad Vass is a research scientist and forensic anthropologist at Oak Ridge (Tenn.) National Laboratory who is well known in the field of decomposition odor analysis. He ran gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer tests on air and carpet samples from Casey’s trunk and found evidence of human decomposition and a high level of chloroform. The defense claims the chloroform was from Caylee’s bathing suit. If Judge Perry allows this evidence at trial, he will be the first judge in the U.S. to do so.

[Robittybob1]

Keela had to have her nose very close to the source before she would alert. However, Grime stated that Eddie had alerted to the floor tiles , whereas his nose was appears to be directed at the sofa fabric right before the barking.
Was Keela given the opportunity to examine the sofa at close quarters?
Was the cellular material beneath the floor tiles a chance finding rather than what Eddie actually alerted to?
Could realisation of a sofa alert have been useful to the investigation?

There is a method of testing for some elements of cadaver odour contaminant, not dissimilar to the methods used for his scent transfer pads as a training aid. It was used in the Casey Anthony case.

http://www.orlandomagazine.com/Blogs/Casey-Anthony-Trial/April-2011/You-want-Orders-with-those-Fryes/

*snipped*
 There are still outstanding motions the judge must rule on. They include plant root growth where Caylee’s remains were found, plus chloroform levels and air samples from the trunk of Casey’s car. State witness Dr. Arpad Vass is a research scientist and forensic anthropologist at Oak Ridge (Tenn.) National Laboratory who is well known in the field of decomposition odor analysis. He ran gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer tests on air and carpet samples from Casey’s trunk and found evidence of human decomposition and a high level of chloroform. The defense claims the chloroform was from Caylee’s bathing suit. If Judge Perry allows this evidence at trial, he will be the first judge in the U.S. to do so.

Sorry, Misty but I'm exhausted.  We won't be able to turn the clock back on this aspect.  I think you have a point but I haven't the energy today sorry.

[misty]

Sorry, Misty but I'm exhausted.  We won't be able to turn the clock back on this aspect.  I think you have a point but I haven't the energy today sorry.

No worries. Look at it when you can.

[Robittybob1]

Grime imagines what is going on inside his dog's head.  No one can really argue because who would know?
It was interesting that the smell of death could be picked up by gas chromatography.   That could be very species specific  in the future.

[Sunny]

Grime imagines what is going on inside his dog's head.  No one can really argue because who would know?
It was interesting that the smell of death could be picked up by gas chromatography.   That could be very species specific  in the future.

I have just had a look at Arpad Vass who brought his patented process to that trial. I am amazed that the judge let him do this as it had never been allowed in a trial before and hadn't been accepted by the scientific community either.

Snipped from a longer article

"A courtroom isn't a scientific lab and evidence shouldn't come in before it has been accepted in a relevant scientific community," Schwartz said.

Vass acknowledged several shortcomings in his testing that detracted from its credibility: He didn't collect the samples, someone in Florida did, and sent them to his lab in Tennessee; as controls in his analysis, he used chloroform obtained from two vehicles unrelated to the case; after obtaining readings from the samples, he compared them to a proprietary database that was not revealed to the defense.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/15/casey.anthony.forensic.evidence/index.html

According to this article it may be the use of this mans testimony that was partially the reason for Caylees mother being found not guilty. 

Misty do you think that Martin Grime is cuing the dog to alert in the videos, rather than just making sure the dog searches everywhere.     I have seen some people making that claim and that is why I ask.

In my opinion whether the dogs head is up or down before an alert probably depends on the dog and not the exact source of the odour and I have to say I can't see any reason to suggest there was anything wrong with this sequence but perhaps I am just thick or something.

[G-Unit]

Eddie alerted behind the sofa. Keela was brought in and alerted more specifically. Forensic samples containing DNA were found as a result. It seems to me that Grime's dogs did what was expected of them.

[misty]

I have just had a look at Arpad Vass who brought his patented process to that trial. I am amazed that the judge let him do this as it had never been allowed in a trial before and hadn't been accepted by the scientific community either.

Snipped from a longer article

"A courtroom isn't a scientific lab and evidence shouldn't come in before it has been accepted in a relevant scientific community," Schwartz said.

Vass acknowledged several shortcomings in his testing that detracted from its credibility: He didn't collect the samples, someone in Florida did, and sent them to his lab in Tennessee; as controls in his analysis, he used chloroform obtained from two vehicles unrelated to the case; after obtaining readings from the samples, he compared them to a proprietary database that was not revealed to the defense.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/15/casey.anthony.forensic.evidence/index.html

According to this article it may be the use of this mans testimony that was partially the reason for Caylees mother being found not guilty. 

Misty do you think that Martin Grime is cuing the dog to alert in the videos, rather than just making sure the dog searches everywhere.     I have seen some people making that claim and that is why I ask.

In my opinion whether the dogs head is up or down before an alert probably depends on the dog and not the exact source of the odour and I have to say I can't see any reason to suggest there was anything wrong with this sequence but perhaps I am just thick or something.

Thank you for that article, Sunny. IMO it goes someway towards proving that until there is a reliable & proven scientific test to validate cadaver dogs' alerts to remnant scent where no body has been found, the alerts should not be allowed as evidence in any body-less murder case.

With regards to the cueing - when drug detection dogs are scenting people/their luggage, would you expect to see the handler tapping the person/luggage to indicate areas to be searched? Surely the dogs' scenting abilities are such that no prompting whatsoever is required & the dogs should be left to seek out any potential source?

All my opinion.

[misty]

Eddie alerted behind the sofa. Keela was brought in and alerted more specifically. Forensic samples containing DNA were found as a result. It seems to me that Grime's dogs did what was expected of them.

We all know what was reported. It would be helpful if you could comment on where Eddie's nose can be seen immediately before his alert. If his alerts are only "general location" how should we view the alerts to the clothing he picked up in his mouth?

[G-Unit]

We all know what was reported. It would be helpful if you could comment on where Eddie's nose can be seen immediately before his alert. If his alerts are only "general location" how should we view the alerts to the clothing he picked up in his mouth?

I'm not that interested, to be honest. I was just pointing out that he wasn't trained to home in on things like Keela was. Eddie said 'There's something around here', Keela said 'It's right THERE'

[Robittybob1]

We all know what was reported. It would be helpful if you could comment on where Eddie's nose can be seen immediately before his alert. If his alerts are only "general location" how should we view the alerts to the clothing he picked up in his mouth?

I have previously covered that, but the clothing tests could possibly be a police ruse IMO.

[misty]

I have previously covered that, but the clothing tests could possibly be a police ruse IMO.

Eddie's alerts to the 3 items of clothing were presented as evidence within the files. Those same alerts formed part of the facts in Amaral's book as declared by the Portuguese Courts. If they were actually a police ruse, how much other evidence was also a ruse?

[Robittybob1]

Eddie's alerts to the 3 items of clothing were presented as evidence within the files. Those same alerts formed part of the facts in Amaral's book as declared by the Portuguese Courts. If they were actually a police ruse, how much other evidence was also a ruse?

It was only the fact that there was video of Eddie and Keela working that it became possible to identify the possible ruse  with Eddie in particular.
As Davel would have pointed out the dog alerts were not evidence, they just needed explaining.  Kate could not explain them and "neither could they".