Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[misty]

Thank you for your sensible answer Misty. You may have a point but i believe that Stockham would have been rigorous in his testing from the get go but I am willing to concede your point.  Stockham wasn't new to the FBI as had been an expert in explosives before.

He also had a degree in Chemistry, something Grime hasn't got, which in 2012 gave him a far better understanding of the complexities of cadaver odour than Grime did back in 2007.

[G-Unit]

Neither has anyone managed to demonstrate that Grime didn't make a potential error simply because no-one can determine precisely what Eddie is alerting to when he barks.

The person qualified to interpret Eddie's alerts was Grime. You chose to disagree with his interpretation based on your observation of the position of the dog's nose.  You suggested that Grime didn't notice what you noticed, but you can't know that. It's just as likely that he didn't mention the position of the dog's nose because it wasn't important. I think you're barking up the wrong tree suggesting that your observations and conclusions are superior to those of the dog's trainer and handler.

[Robittybob1]

The person qualified to interpret Eddie's alerts was Grime. You chose to disagree with his interpretation based on your observation of the position of the dog's nose.  You suggested that Grime didn't notice what you noticed, but you can't know that. It's just as likely that he didn't mention the position of the dog's nose because it wasn't important. I think you're barking up the wrong tree suggesting that your observations and conclusions are superior to those of the dog's trainer and handler.

Have you ever been assessed as to how accurate you are at barking up the right tree? 

[Brietta]

You have failed to show that Martin Grime said that the dog alerts were unreliable and that the alerts were actually unreliable in themselves. Just because they weren't admissible in court doesn't make them unreliable.

We don't need to know the details of Stockham's tests all we need to know is what job he did and that he was considered an expert witness at the D'Andre Lane trial.

Do we have all the full details of how the drug tests were carried out on the twins and Kate no we don't, yet you accept the result of them.

An expert witness in Britain is expected to be neutral but in America it is big business the rates for which I have heard are very lucrative.
There are also ethical problems arising from their use in america.  On a forum like ours we must be aware of exactly what we are discussing and to bear in mind that to us an expert witness is something entirely different from the American model.


Technical Advisory Service for Attorneys (TASA): Quality Expert Witnesses, Exceptional Personal Service
TASA delivers timesaving, targeted referrals to quality expert witnesses in all fields and all locations, for plaintiff or defense. Our experienced referral advisors work with you to pinpoint your specific expert witness criteria and connect you with expert witnesses who are available to discuss your case. There is no charge for our search and referral services unless you designate or engage an expert witness we refer. As a client, you will benefit from TASA’s years of experience and innovation since 1956. We invite you to explore our website and its features, search expert witness profiles within TASA’s 11,000+ categories of expertise, submit an expert witness request, and tap the Knowledge Center for archived expert-led webinars and case-relevant articles written by TASA-referred expert witnesses. Trust TASA to help you identify the best expert witness for your case.
https://www.tasanet.com/expertrequestgooglelanding?source=goog&kw=expertwitnesses&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-PPJ1-_l3AIVorztCh2R7wxvEAAYASAAEgLJdvD_BwE

Snip
England has also recently instituted what Adrian Zuckerman, the author of a 2006 treatise there, called “radical measures” to address “the culture of confrontation that permeated the use of experts in litigation.” The measures included placing experts under the complete control of the court, requiring a single expert in many cases and encouraging cooperation among experts when the parties retain more than one. Experts are required to sign a statement saying their duty is to the court and not to the party paying their bills.

There are no signs of similar changes in the United States. “The American tendency is strictly the party-appointed expert,” said James Maxeiner, a professor of comparative law at the University of Baltimore. “There is this proprietary interest lawyers here have over lawsuits.”

American lawyers often interview many potential expert witnesses in search of ones who will bolster their case and then work closely with them in framing their testimony to be accessible and helpful. At a minimum, the process results in carefully tailored testimony. Some critics say it can also produce bias and ethical compromises.

“To put it bluntly, in many professions, service as an expert witness is not considered honest work,” Samuel R. Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in the Wisconsin Law Review. “The contempt of lawyers and judges for experts is famous. They regularly describe expert witnesses as prostitutes.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/us/12experts.html

[slartibartfast]

An expert witness in Britain is expected to be neutral but in America it is big business the rates for which I have heard are very lucrative.
There are also ethical problems arising from their use in america.  On a forum like ours we must be aware of exactly what we are discussing and to bear in mind that to us an expert witness is something entirely different from the American model.


Technical Advisory Service for Attorneys (TASA): Quality Expert Witnesses, Exceptional Personal Service
TASA delivers timesaving, targeted referrals to quality expert witnesses in all fields and all locations, for plaintiff or defense. Our experienced referral advisors work with you to pinpoint your specific expert witness criteria and connect you with expert witnesses who are available to discuss your case. There is no charge for our search and referral services unless you designate or engage an expert witness we refer. As a client, you will benefit from TASA’s years of experience and innovation since 1956. We invite you to explore our website and its features, search expert witness profiles within TASA’s 11,000+ categories of expertise, submit an expert witness request, and tap the Knowledge Center for archived expert-led webinars and case-relevant articles written by TASA-referred expert witnesses. Trust TASA to help you identify the best expert witness for your case.
https://www.tasanet.com/expertrequestgooglelanding?source=goog&kw=expertwitnesses&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-PPJ1-_l3AIVorztCh2R7wxvEAAYASAAEgLJdvD_BwE

Snip
England has also recently instituted what Adrian Zuckerman, the author of a 2006 treatise there, called “radical measures” to address “the culture of confrontation that permeated the use of experts in litigation.” The measures included placing experts under the complete control of the court, requiring a single expert in many cases and encouraging cooperation among experts when the parties retain more than one. Experts are required to sign a statement saying their duty is to the court and not to the party paying their bills.

There are no signs of similar changes in the United States. “The American tendency is strictly the party-appointed expert,” said James Maxeiner, a professor of comparative law at the University of Baltimore. “There is this proprietary interest lawyers here have over lawsuits.”

American lawyers often interview many potential expert witnesses in search of ones who will bolster their case and then work closely with them in framing their testimony to be accessible and helpful. At a minimum, the process results in carefully tailored testimony. Some critics say it can also produce bias and ethical compromises.

“To put it bluntly, in many professions, service as an expert witness is not considered honest work,” Samuel R. Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in the Wisconsin Law Review. “The contempt of lawyers and judges for experts is famous. They regularly describe expert witnesses as prostitutes.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/us/12experts.html

It’s a good job America is irrelevant then...

[misty]

It’s a good job America is irrelevant then...

How is America irrelevant when an American expert witness testified for the prosecution about the competence of a UK based cadaver dog team?

[G-Unit]

Have you ever been assessed as to how accurate you are at barking up the right tree?

I endeavour to provide evidence to support my choice of tree, rather than relying on my opinion.

[Mr Gray]

I endeavour to provide evidence to support my choice of tree, rather than relying on my opinion.

thats waht all sensible posters do

[John]

Please stop arguing unnecessarily on this thread.

[misty]

The person qualified to interpret Eddie's alerts was Grime. You chose to disagree with his interpretation based on your observation of the position of the dog's nose.  You suggested that Grime didn't notice what you noticed, but you can't know that. It's just as likely that he didn't mention the position of the dog's nose because it wasn't important. I think you're barking up the wrong tree suggesting that your observations and conclusions are superior to those of the dog's trainer and handler.

 I have the benefit of video evidence and do consider that the last position of the dog's nose before alerting was very important, especially so in light of the PJ's list of McCann-related items reportedly alerted to..
 Why do you think VAR has been introduced into football if not to facilitate reviewing infringements the referee may have missed in real-time action? I see no record of Grime reviewing Harrison's mobile video footage before confirming some of the places alerted to.

[G-Unit]

I have the benefit of video evidence and do consider that the last position of the dog's nose before alerting was very important, especially so in light of the PJ's list of McCann-related items reportedly alerted to..
 Why do you think VAR has been introduced into football if not to facilitate reviewing infringements the referee may have missed in real-time action? I see no record of Grime reviewing Harrison's mobile video footage before confirming some of the places alerted to.

I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking for evidence that the position of a cadaver dog's nose just before it alerts is significant.  Twenty one pages and not a sign of it.

[sadie]

Surely you must know by now, there is ONLY ONE PLACE within 5A where there was any chance that there might have been a cadaver scent and that was up the wall between the bed and wardrobe.  That is just the sort of position where a bedside table might had sat possibly with the ashes of a previous owner who died or even his bedclothes that he died in, IMO.  A comforting place for his widow, a bedside table close to her head where she could reach out and easily touch them.

Now how do you think that a cadaver of a child of nearly four, could have got so high up that wall?  Doesn't make sense that Madeleines cadaver could have lain so high up a wall.   Doncha think?

AIMO

[misty]

I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking for evidence that the position of a cadaver dog's nose just before it alerts is significant.  Twenty one pages and not a sign of it.

The proof is on the video if you believe Eddie alerted to specific items of McCann clothing, the wardrobe area or the corner of the garden.

[G-Unit]

Surely you must know by now, there is ONLY ONE PLACE within 5A where there was any chance that there might have been a cadaver scent and that was up the wall between the bed and wardrobe.  That is just the sort of position where a bedside table might had sat possibly with the ashes of a previous owner who died or even his bedclothes that he died in, IMO.  A comforting place for his widow, a bedside table close to her head where she could reach out and easily touch them.

Now how do you think that a cadaver of a child of nearly four, could have got so high up that wall?  Doesn't make sense that Madeleines cadaver could have lain so high up a wall.   Doncha think?

AIMO

AIMO

Are you also claiming to know the exact spot which triggered Eddie's alert? His handler certainly didn't try to do that.

[G-Unit]

The proof is on the video if you believe Eddie alerted to specific items of McCann clothing, the wardrobe area or the corner of the garden.

The key word being 'area'. The clothing alerts were specific because he was given access to specific items of clothing,