Author Topic: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.  (Read 502518 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #735 on: April 01, 2019, 01:54:44 PM »
That is what Mark Perlib claims; that he can seperate mixed samples and show how nany contributors there really were and which alletes belong to which person. So he could say how many people were represented in the mixed sample from the boot and which markers belonged to each person. I don't know if that would shed any light on the case, but it could answer the question of whether Madeleine's DNA was in the boot of the car.

I dont think it could...as misty says it could only make reference to known dna samples....i dont see how it could unravel an unknown profile from a mixture

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #736 on: April 01, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

perhaps perlin hasnt expalined it very well

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #737 on: April 01, 2019, 02:15:52 PM »
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #738 on: April 01, 2019, 02:31:34 PM »
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.

Why has he said it would show whether maddies DNA was in the car when it wouldnt.... Would he not need both Kate and gerrys DNA for any meaningful analysis

Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #739 on: April 01, 2019, 02:47:32 PM »
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #740 on: April 02, 2019, 03:46:53 AM »
I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 03:51:12 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Lace

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #741 on: April 02, 2019, 08:49:13 AM »
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO

Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #742 on: April 02, 2019, 09:20:31 AM »
The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO

Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Lace

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #743 on: April 02, 2019, 09:38:58 AM »
Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.



Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   

Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #744 on: April 02, 2019, 10:06:53 AM »


Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   

Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #745 on: April 02, 2019, 10:26:35 AM »
Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))

Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #746 on: April 02, 2019, 10:33:58 AM »
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #747 on: April 02, 2019, 10:34:58 AM »
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

It could prove that the similarity to Madeleine’s DNA was simpl by chance and that there was nothing to put Madeleine in the car.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #748 on: April 02, 2019, 11:26:07 AM »
What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?

That would not prove Maddie had not been carried in the car

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #749 on: April 02, 2019, 11:29:09 AM »
It could also prove the Portuguese police were not under so much pressure that they planted DNA evidence of a missing child who they had never met in their lives before, in the hire car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ri32SU2rE&t=193s

Madeleines DNA could be all over the car... The dogs don't alert to dna