Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[Alice Purjorick]

That is a good photo  - Do you see the rectangular block of metal beside the slip bolt?  1) There are two bits of metal there but only one arrow.  I think from experience you won't be able to close this door  without the key in the lock 2) as these two pieces will be independent.

1) Quite right
2) Quite wrong.......they form a composite piece.

[Robittybob1]

1) Quite right
2) Quite wrong.......they form a composite piece.

As I said before I experienced a door where these two pieces were independent.   From the photo we can't tell.
 

[Alice Purjorick]

As I said before I experienced a door where these two pieces were independent.   From the photo we can't tell.

We did this to death nearly a year ago.
I posted reams of data sheets and comics on the style of latch at the time.
The two lumps form a composite component.

[sadie]

@Gunit.

Did you see the following?  Do you still think that Matt couldn't see the twins breathing  ... even th eone in the brown ended cot?

I think that this photo is an exercise in HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT.  Maybe not deliberately !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/05/article-1041660-022B835300000578-206_468x307.jpg



Showing that the height of the sides of the twins cots was very low.  Use the drawers in the chest to give you an indication

Madeleines bed is approx 2" lower then the top of the second drawer.  The cots are approx 2" higher than the top of the same drawer.


Given that whilst flat 5A  is  decently furnished, the furniture is not expensive,...  Madeleines bed is unlikely to be high off the ground and the sides of the twins cots only about 4" higher.   IMO the photograph that we keep seeing was taken from a lowish level. 

See the door handle?   An educated GUESS would have it at 3'0" - 3' 6" off the ground; most probably one metre

Below another view to add perspective to that measurement.  See the door handle just under the lamp ?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/05/article-1041660-022B835900000578-289_468x305.jpg



... and the original image that we keep seeing which is giving out false info, or at least info that we haven't understood.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_14.jpg



Matts eye level would be way higher than the camera height.  He must be almost as tall as Russell who was reported, on here, a few days ago to be 6' 6" tall

His line of sight would be way higher than portrayed in that photo.   My take is that he may well have been able to see both the twins breathing from within the bedroom entrance. 


The fact that he could see them was partially because a light was left on in the sitting room ..., and IMO partially because rather more light than the usual tiny amount was coming in via the window shutters.   
Was there a lull before the storm, so no draughts and no curtains flying ?.

Had the dreaded deed been done and dusted by then?

In the back of my mind there is a vague remembrance of reading that the weather became very gusty later ... and it was at its height about 10pm.    I cannot prove that any more, so believe or disbelieve

Everything that I have stated is fact, or questions, excepting where I have already indicated that it was my opinion.

[Robittybob1]

The way the wardrobe juts into the room beyond the doorway blocks a good look of the window.  The additional height of Matt and listening for breathing seeing their heads maybe sufficient. 

[G-Unit]

We did this to death nearly a year ago.
I posted reams of data sheets and comics on the style of latch at the time.
The two lumps form a composite component.

Matthew described how it worked if you can make any sense of it at all. I think he may be saying that from the inside, if not double-locked, it could be opened and closed again. If so, it could be pulled to a close from the outside also;

4078 'Okay. And this door here, what was the door like''
Reply 'Erm, brown, erm, big, brown and wood, brown and wood like. There was a lock, erm, it sort of, you know, one of those you turn twice with the key. And I think, and sort of I think a round, or was it like a lever handle, I can't remember what the handle was like, I think you had to turn it to go in and so it would snip, erm, you couldn't really shut it with the lock on, but I think if you didn't lock it up here you could then just open it and shut it, I think you had to actually lock it to, it wasn't like a Yale thing that, erm, stops you opening it again, I think'.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
 

[jassi]

Matthew described how it worked if you can make any sense of it at all. I think he may be saying that from the inside, if not double-locked, it could be opened and closed again. If so, it could be pulled to a close from the outside also;

4078 'Okay. And this door here, what was the door like''
Reply 'Erm, brown, erm, big, brown and wood, brown and wood like. There was a lock, erm, it sort of, you know, one of those you turn twice with the key. And I think, and sort of I think a round, or was it like a lever handle, I can't remember what the handle was like, I think you had to turn it to go in and so it would snip, erm, you couldn't really shut it with the lock on, but I think if you didn't lock it up here you could then just open it and shut it, I think you had to actually lock it to, it wasn't like a Yale thing that, erm, stops you opening it again, I think'.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Can anyone make sense of that ?
Good job he doesn't have to earn his living as a purveyor of locks   

[Robittybob1]

Matthew described how it worked if you can make any sense of it at all. I think he may be saying that from the inside, if not double-locked, it could be opened and closed again. If so, it could be pulled to a close from the outside also;

4078 'Okay. And this door here, what was the door like''
Reply 'Erm, brown, erm, big, brown and wood, brown and wood like. There was a lock, erm, it sort of, you know, one of those you turn twice with the key. And I think, and sort of I think a round, or was it like a lever handle, I can't remember what the handle was like, I think you had to turn it to go in and so it would snip, erm, you couldn't really shut it with the lock on, but I think if you didn't lock it up here you could then just open it and shut it, I think you had to actually lock it to, it wasn't like a Yale thing that, erm, stops you opening it again, I think'.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I really think that means you can only pull the door closed from outside if the key is in the lock.  We saw it in the video of the cleaners they had to activate the internal lever to close the door from the inside (They didn't just slam the door shut)
The slip bolt is clearly made of two parts.

[Lace]

Going back to the slats of the blind in the children's bedroom.   Would a few open slats show the  whole curtains up as Green and Yellow?    Also if these few slats were open,   how come no one mentioned them as being open when doing a check from the outside of the bedroom window?

If those slats were broken as in not shutting properly,  then it only proves that those blinds were dodgy.

[Lace]

I really think that means you can only pull the door closed from outside if the key is in the lock.  We saw it in the video of the cleaners they had to activate the internal lever to close the door from the inside (They didn't just slam the door shut)
The slip bolt is clearly made of two parts.

Talking about the cleaners and the locks on the door.    One family who stayed in that block said that the cleaner would come into the apartment when they weren't ready for her so they locked the door and left the key in the lock,  the cleaner however still managed to get inside!!

[jassi]

Talking about the cleaners and the locks on the door.    One family who stayed in that block said that the cleaner would come into the apartment when they weren't ready for her so they locked the door and left the key in the lock,  the cleaner however still managed to get inside!!

Perhaps she sneaked in through the window.

[Lace]

Here is the link for the statement of the holiday maker who locked the door to stop the cleaner entering -

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm

[G-Unit]

@Gunit.

Did you see the following?  Do you still think that Matt couldn't see the twins breathing  ... even th eone in the brown ended cot?

First of all, he makes no mention of breathing in his initial statements. He can 'see' or' 'glimpse' the twins, maybe. He didn't go into the bedroom, in fact he can't remember how near he did get to the door.

It's only when he's pushed in his rog interview that breathing is introduced into his testimony. As he fails to describe the cots or their positions correctly my opinion is that the suggestion that he could see the twins breathing has to be taken with a fairly large pinch of salt.

4th May
He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots.
10th May
That he did not enter the bedroom where MBM and the twins were sleeping. He recalls that the bedroom door was half open, making an angle of 50 degrees. He does not know how far away he was from the bedroom door.......further, due to, in his mind, having managed to glimpse the two twins inside their cots, the deponent returned to the restaurant to finish dinner.
Rogatory interview
So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in......the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing .....there was a gap between the two and the sides are mesh, erm'.......4078 'So you saw the sides. Do you remember which way the children were facing in the cots''
Reply 'No, it was just, you could just see the shape and bits of breathing'..............you'd see, erm, part of this one, slightly obstructed by this one, but enough to see through the grill, erm, and this one you'd see through the, through the mesh side, you'd see the kids'.
 

[G-Unit]

Going back to the slats of the blind in the children's bedroom.   Would a few open slats show the  whole curtains up as Green and Yellow?    Also if these few slats were open,   how come no one mentioned them as being open when doing a check from the outside of the bedroom window?

If those slats were broken as in not shutting properly,  then it only proves that those blinds were dodgy.

the external blinds closed but with some slats open,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm




Senior Editor comment

To avoid any misunderstanding, this photo was taken many years after Madeleine disappeared when the trees bordering the car park east side had been removed.  The shutter appears as it was in May 2007.

[jassi]

First of all, he makes no mention of breathing in his initial statements. He can 'see' or' 'glimpse' the twins, maybe. He didn't go into the bedroom, in fact he can't remember how near he did get to the door.

It's only when he's pushed in his rog interview that breathing is introduced into his testimony. As he fails to describe the cots or their positions correctly my opinion is that the suggestion that he could see the twins breathing has to be taken with a fairly large pinch of salt.

4th May
He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots.
10th May
That he did not enter the bedroom where MBM and the twins were sleeping. He recalls that the bedroom door was half open, making an angle of 50 degrees. He does not know how far away he was from the bedroom door.......further, due to, in his mind, having managed to glimpse the two twins inside their cots, the deponent returned to the restaurant to finish dinner.
Rogatory interview
So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in......the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing .....there was a gap between the two and the sides are mesh, erm'.......4078 'So you saw the sides. Do you remember which way the children were facing in the cots''
Reply 'No, it was just, you could just see the shape and bits of breathing'..............you'd see, erm, part of this one, slightly obstructed by this one, but enough to see through the grill, erm, and this one you'd see through the, through the mesh side, you'd see the kids'.

In fact wasn't their breathing so shallow that Kate was anxious to check that they actually were breathing?
If that was the case, how could he tell from several feet distance away?