Author Topic: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal  (Read 18612 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #150 on: February 24, 2019, 08:48:26 PM »
In those circumstances, I would attempt to engage in conversation with this male.
For what reason?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline jassi

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #151 on: February 24, 2019, 08:55:54 PM »
For what reason?

To see what it was all about, rather than jumping to conclusions.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #152 on: February 24, 2019, 08:58:38 PM »
To see what it was all about, rather than jumping to conclusions.
So not because of any concern over the safety of the children in your charge?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline jassi

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #153 on: February 25, 2019, 08:29:10 AM »
So not because of any concern over the safety of the children in your charge?

Certainly not until the situation had been assessed. That's what someone with a clear head would do - IMO
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #154 on: February 25, 2019, 11:20:08 AM »
Let’s put it this way: if there are kids playing in the yard at school and one engages in conversation with a passing male stranger should the supervising teacher encourage the child, turn a blind eye or tell the child to stop and come away from the man?  What would you do if you were the teacher in charge?
I didn't notice a supervising teacher, so there might have been one, or not.  I actually find the notion of children being 'supervised' at playtime rather odd, and in truth, somewhat creepy.

Here's another true event.  Two of his friends from the village that our grandson met a couple of weeks ago came down to play with him and his younger brother.  We have a trampoline, with a safety net enclosing it.  I was going out for a walk with my dog Gonçalo.  The village friends appear to be Portuguese.  While the children frolicked on the trampoline, they chatted to each other in very animated Portuguese, and I couldn't understand a word.  It was much too fast for me.

When I got back from my walk, it was fast getting dark.  Our grandchildren's father told his kids it was time for the pair to come in, and it was time for their two friends to go home.  The Portuguese lads came racing up behind me to get their bicycles to go home.  I told them, in English, it was OK to leave our security gate open, because I would shut it.  One of the children told me in very polite, fluent English, that I need not worry, then he shut the gate and went home.

Perhaps I should have abandoned my dog walk to 'supervise' the children on the trampoline, as their parents were not in sight?  Perhaps I should not have talked to two well-educated children, who's names I do not know? 

What does it take to be normal in darkest Derbyshire?  Don't you people feel an obligation to look after your children?
What's up, old man?

Offline Erngath

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #155 on: February 25, 2019, 12:21:10 PM »
Let’s put it this way: if there are kids playing in the yard at school and one engages in conversation with a passing male stranger should the supervising teacher encourage the child, turn a blind eye or tell the child to stop and come away from the man?  What would you do if you were the teacher in charge?



Here there are always at least two members of staff, not always from the teaching staff, who interact with the children at break times.
Their contribution is invaluable, encouraging the shyer children to join in the games, helping any child who falls or becomes unwell, encouraging good behaviour and fair play etc.
If one of these members of staff saw any adult talking to a child, then he or she would approach the child and join in the conversation to find out who the adult was.
If indeed this person was an unknown adult , the child would be encouraged to return to the other children.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 12:23:34 PM by Erngath »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Brietta

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #156 on: February 25, 2019, 01:44:47 PM »


Here there are always at least two members of staff, not always from the teaching staff, who interact with the children at break times.
Their contribution is invaluable, encouraging the shyer children to join in the games, helping any child who falls or becomes unwell, encouraging good behaviour and fair play etc.
If one of these members of staff saw any adult talking to a child, then he or she would approach the child and join in the conversation to find out who the adult was.
If indeed this person was an unknown adult , the child would be encouraged to return to the other children.

Attitudes in Britain have been shaped by the fate of children taken by serial killers such as Hindley ~ Brady ~ Black.

My children were never allowed the freedoms to roam that my parents allowed me and I know for a fact that the Dunblane school massacre of children and teachers has hardened opinion against strangers taking any liberties whatsoever in or near school premises.

The unthinkable happened and now due diligence is exercised by all to minimise the opportunities for it to happen again.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #157 on: February 25, 2019, 06:02:17 PM »
I didn't notice a supervising teacher, so there might have been one, or not.  I actually find the notion of children being 'supervised' at playtime rather odd, and in truth, somewhat creepy.

Here's another true event.  Two of his friends from the village that our grandson met a couple of weeks ago came down to play with him and his younger brother.  We have a trampoline, with a safety net enclosing it.  I was going out for a walk with my dog Gonçalo.  The village friends appear to be Portuguese.  While the children frolicked on the trampoline, they chatted to each other in very animated Portuguese, and I couldn't understand a word.  It was much too fast for me.

When I got back from my walk, it was fast getting dark.  Our grandchildren's father told his kids it was time for the pair to come in, and it was time for their two friends to go home.  The Portuguese lads came racing up behind me to get their bicycles to go home.  I told them, in English, it was OK to leave our security gate open, because I would shut it.  One of the children told me in very polite, fluent English, that I need not worry, then he shut the gate and went home.

Perhaps I should have abandoned my dog walk to 'supervise' the children on the trampoline, as their parents were not in sight?  Perhaps I should not have talked to two well-educated children, who's names I do not know? 

What does it take to be normal in darkest Derbyshire?  Don't you people feel an obligation to look after your children?
What an extraordinarily bizarre post.  You think playground supervisors are creepy but think it perfectly acceptable for children to be able to hold conversations with complete strangers in he playground.  Furthermore, you end your post by asking whether or not I feel an obligation to look after my children.  Well, derrrr.  If I knew my kids had been approached in the playground by a complete stranger I would be straight into the headmaster’s like a shot.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #158 on: February 25, 2019, 06:05:56 PM »
Certainly not until the situation had been assessed. That's what someone with a clear head would do - IMO
Oh FGS, of course “assessing the situation “ would be out of a sense of concern for the safety of the children in their care.  Why else?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Erngath

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #159 on: February 25, 2019, 06:26:38 PM »
What an extraordinarily bizarre post.  You think playground supervisors are creepy but think it perfectly acceptable for children to be able to hold conversations with complete strangers in he playground.  Furthermore, you end your post by asking whether or not I feel an obligation to look after my children.  Well, derrrr.  If I knew my kids had been approached in the playground by a complete stranger I would be straight into the headmaster’s like a shot.

Here the playground gates are locked during break times.
The only way an adult could speak to a child would be through the fencing surrounding the playground and this would be noted and discouraged.
Impossible to approach a child in the playground.
And rightly so!
As Brietta posted the tragedy of Dunblane altered forever the security in schools.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #160 on: February 26, 2019, 10:16:52 AM »
What an extraordinarily bizarre post.  You think playground supervisors are creepy but think it perfectly acceptable for children to be able to hold conversations with complete strangers in he playground.  Furthermore, you end your post by asking whether or not I feel an obligation to look after my children.  Well, derrrr.  If I knew my kids had been approached in the playground by a complete stranger I would be straight into the headmaster’s like a shot.
What a bizarre stance!

Let me clarify, yet again.  I approached no-one.  The young boy initiated a conversation.

You still see this as an issue.  From the above, the headmaster would be found 'guilty' for the actions of your child.   That reeks of blame shifting from your child and yourself to a 3rd party.

We don't build our schools like concentration camps here.  Perhaps the UK now does.  Should every school perimeter fence be torn fence be torn down and replaced with solid 2m high fences to stop a young child from starting such a conversation?  Or perhaps an exclusion zone of, say 50m, around the outside for anyone 'unknown', (including 'creepy' parents)?

I'll leave you to be rude to such a small child.  Here we look after our kids, not teach them to be anti-social.
What's up, old man?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #161 on: February 26, 2019, 10:33:41 AM »
Here the playground gates are locked during break times.
The only way an adult could speak to a child would be through the fencing surrounding the playground and this would be noted and discouraged.
Impossible to approach a child in the playground.
And rightly so!
As Brietta posted the tragedy of Dunblane altered forever the security in schools.
While here we use metal grill fencing that is 2m high and is mass-produced as standard.  You can go to Google streetview and check the school out for yourself.

I have no idea if the school PERIMETER fence gets locked or not.  I was on the OUTSIDE walking down the street while the child was on the INSIDE.  I had no reason to check the gates.

Let me leave UK residents with a Dunblane mentality.  It sounds to me akin to the idea of arming all teachers in the US to prevent another school massacre there.  I don't want to live in either type of mentality.

Here we look after our kids.  The McCanns chose not to.   *&^^&
What's up, old man?

Online Eleanor

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #162 on: February 26, 2019, 10:35:46 AM »
What a bizarre stance!

Let me clarify, yet again.  I approached no-one.  The young boy initiated a conversation.

You still see this as an issue.  From the above, the headmaster would be found 'guilty' for the actions of your child.   That reeks of blame shifting from your child and yourself to a 3rd party.

We don't build our schools like concentration camps here.  Perhaps the UK now does.  Should every school perimeter fence be torn fence be torn down and replaced with solid 2m high fences to stop a young child from starting such a conversation?  Or perhaps an exclusion zone of, say 50m, around the outside for anyone 'unknown', (including 'creepy' parents)?

I'll leave you to be rude to such a small child.  Here we look after our kids, not teach them to be anti-social.

And then children get sexually assaulted and abducted.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #163 on: February 26, 2019, 10:35:50 AM »
While here we use metal grill fencing that is 2m high and is mass-produced as standard.  You can go to Google streetview and check the school out for yourself.

I have no idea if the school PERIMETER fence gets locked or not.  I was on the OUTSIDE walking down the street while the child was on the INSIDE.  I had no reason to check the gates.

Let me leave UK residents with a Dunblane mentality.  It sounds to me akin to the idea of arming all teachers in the US to prevent another school massacre there.  I don't want to live in either type of mentality.

Here we look after our kids.  The McCanns chose not to.   *&^^&

So there is no poor parenting in Portugal... No child abuse...You need to wake up... The Portuguese need to look after their children a little more

Abuse. Portugal is ranked among the three countries with the highest rate of infant deaths from ill treatment: 90% of abused children ...
https://www.humanium.org/en/portugal/



Many children from Brazil, Eastern Europe and Africa are sent to Portugal. They are used in the hotel industry, for domestic work and prostitution. These children typically suffer ill treatment and sexual abuse.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 10:43:28 AM by Davel »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #164 on: February 26, 2019, 11:21:35 AM »
So there is no poor parenting in Portugal... No child abuse...You need to wake up... The Portuguese need to look after their children a little more

Abuse. Portugal is ranked among the three countries with the highest rate of infant deaths from ill treatment: 90% of abused children ...
https://www.humanium.org/en/portugal/



Many children from Brazil, Eastern Europe and Africa are sent to Portugal. They are used in the hotel industry, for domestic work and prostitution. These children typically suffer ill treatment and sexual abuse.
WOW! An undated report from an NGO that started in 2008, and which appears to applied its own standards for things like 'poverty'.  There is almost nothing in that report that is relevant.  We were discussing an incident in Luz primary school street, not conditions in Lisbon, Porto or the north.  And the child was not a Roma child.  Nor was he from Brazil, Eastern Europe, or Africa.  He wasn't working.  He was in a primary school.  He was well-fed, well clothed and educated.

Here we look after our kids, unlike the McCanns.  Simple as.

What's up, old man?