Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?

[G-Unit]

My point is how the success or failure of Mrs May measures up against previous election results.

Well if you want to talk about votes, Corbyn's Labour Party won a higher share of the vote (40.1%)   than Blair's 'New' Labour Party did (35.2%). Even though it didn't convert into seats, it stopped the predicted Tory landslide and has caused the problems they are wrestling with.

[Alice Purjorick]

Well if you want to talk about votes, Corbyn's Labour Party won a higher share of the vote (40.1%)   than Blair's 'New' Labour Party did (35.2%). Even though it didn't convert into seats, it stopped the predicted Tory landslide and has caused the problems they are wrestling with.

I just wish they [the Tories] would collectively get on and play the hand they have been dealt and stop playing silly b****rs. TM will be out because her own side will get her thus following in the footsteps of Thatcher, Major, Duncan-Smith, Howard, Hague and Cameron.......all over the European Union "should I stay or should I go" ?

[G-Unit]

I just wish they [the Tories] would collectively get on and play the hand they have been dealt and stop playing silly b****rs. TM will be out because her own side will get her thus following in the footsteps of Thatcher, Major, Duncan-Smith, Howard, Hague and Cameron.......all over the European Union "should I stay or should I go" ?

They are trying, but the deal with the DUP is a difficult balancing act. Their links to Loyalist Paramilitary groups are now emerging. One rumour says they will want all the Orange marches to be allowed again. I'm sure May and the Tories don't want to be involved in anything which could start hostilities in Northern Ireland to resume. 

The question isn't whether she will go but when and how.

[Alice Purjorick]

They are trying, but the deal with the DUP is a difficult balancing act. Their links to Loyalist Paramilitary groups are now emerging. One rumour says they will want all the Orange marches to be allowed again. I'm sure May and the Tories don't want to be involved in anything which could start hostilities in Northern Ireland to resume. 

The question isn't whether she will go but when and how.

I thought all the controversial stuff in NI had been handed over to the devolved mob in Stormont who now refuse to sit in the same room with each other? If they would play ball there would be no need for the UK government to play honest broker. I guess if we leave the EU the Republic of Ireland can legitimately say a united Ireland is back on the stocks?

If/when she TM goes is only an internal presentational thingy anyway. The law courts of this country thanks to Gina Miller have decreed the "Brexit" negotiations are b****r all to do with devolved national governments but the stomping ground solely of the UK government. The last contractual letter on file to the EU says "we are off" start the clock. 27 EU nations will have a battle royal over how the UK 's multi billion Euro contribution is divvied up between them. I see no consensus forthcoming on that. At least May is not afraid to run the ball at folk on occasion even if she occasionally drops it.  God preserve us from those who think they can  bat at better than 0.4 all the time. (to mix metaphors) Some idiots (IMNSHO) think Bojo should be PM. The way the tories are p***ing about it's enough to make me vote for Corbyn if there is an another election. 

[G-Unit]

I thought all the controversial stuff in NI had been handed over to the devolved mob in Stormont who now refuse to sit in the same room with each other? If they would play ball there would be no need for the UK government to play honest broker. I guess if we leave the EU the Republic of Ireland can legitimately say a united Ireland is back on the stocks?

If/when she TM goes is only an internal presentational thingy anyway. The law courts of this country thanks to Gina Miller have decreed the "Brexit" negotiations are b****r all to do with devolved national governments but the stomping ground solely of the UK government. The last contractual letter on file to the EU says "we are off" start the clock. 27 EU nations will have a battle royal over how the UK 's multi billion Euro contribution is divvied up between them. I see no consensus forthcoming on that. At least May is not afraid to run the ball at folk on occasion even if she occasionally drops it.  God preserve us from those who think they can  bat at better than 0.4 all the time. (to mix metaphors) Some idiots (IMNSHO) think Bojo should be PM. The way the tories are p***ing about it's enough to make me vote for Corbyn if there is an another election. 

The irony of it all! No wonder the only person smiling at the moment is Corbyn. Was he wrong when he said nothing would persuade Sinn Fein to take their seats at Westminster? The rumour is they're doing just that. Seven more votes against the Tories.

[sadie]

Well if you want to talk about votes, Corbyn's Labour Party won a higher share of the vote (40.1%)   than Blair's 'New' Labour Party did (35.2%). Even though it didn't convert into seats, it stopped the predicted Tory landslide and has caused the problems they are wrestling with.

The last time that we had a massive slide towards a persuasive Labour politician who promised everything, was when ~~~ Blair ~~~ got in.

And he gave everyone everything everyone wanted ... became very ;popular ...  and bankrupted the Country.

And that is apart from the dreadful things he did in the Middle East, which killed whole swathes of our young soldiers, countless civilians and was in no small measure responsible for the [ censored word ]ed that some of our home grown terrorists exhibit today.

Hopefully Corbyn would not do the later, but his ideas would bring us down to rock bottom again financially .... helped by Brexit.


A good period of AUSTERITY for all including the rich, is what this Country needs to try and bring us back to reality.... IMO ... and to attempt to pay off some of our debts.


Doom and gloom.  sorry folks.

[misty]

The irony of it all! No wonder the only person smiling at the moment is Corbyn. Was he wrong when he said nothing would persuade Sinn Fein to take their seats at Westminster? The rumour is they're doing just that. Seven more votes against the Tories.

Hmmm....pot & kettle....https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/

[G-Unit]

Hmmm....pot & kettle....https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/

MP's who were close to Brown and Milliband may be 'pots', but we already knew their principles were questionable, didn't we?

The Labour Party now is very different than it was before.

[G-Unit]

The last time that we had a massive slide towards a persuasive Labour politician who promised everything, was when ~~~ Blair ~~~ got in.

And he gave everyone everything everyone wanted ... became very ;popular ...  and bankrupted the Country.

And that is apart from the dreadful things he did in the Middle East, which killed whole swathes of our young soldiers, countless civilians and was in no small measure responsible for the [ censored word ]ed that some of our home grown terrorists exhibit today.

Hopefully Corbyn would not do the later, but his ideas would bring us down to rock bottom again financially .... helped by Brexit.


A good period of AUSTERITY for all including the rich, is what this Country needs to try and bring us back to reality.... IMO ... and to attempt to pay off some of our debts.


Doom and gloom.  sorry folks.

Blair, of course, was 'New' Labour which was an unknown entity. I remember someone asking me when they won what they were going to do. My reply was that I'd no idea, because they weren't traditional Labour politicians.

Economists disagree on whether austerity is the answer. Despite all the misery and worry inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable the National Debt has risen by 50% since the Tories took over.
https://fullfact.org/economy/has-uks-debt-doubled/

[Alice Purjorick]

The last time that we had a massive slide towards a persuasive Labour politician who promised everything, was when ~~~ Blair ~~~ got in.

And he gave everyone everything everyone wanted ... became very ;popular ...  and bankrupted the Country.

And that is apart from the dreadful things he did in the Middle East, which killed whole swathes of our young soldiers, countless civilians and was in no small measure responsible for the [ censored word ]ed that some of our home grown terrorists exhibit today.

Hopefully Corbyn would not do the later, but his ideas would bring us down to rock bottom again financially .... helped by Brexit.


A good period of AUSTERITY for all including the rich, is what this Country needs to try and bring us back to reality.... IMO ... and to attempt to pay off some of our debts.


Doom and gloom.  sorry folks.

If you look at the size of our welfare budget maybe someone should propose something really reactionary. Like if you can afford to pay for it you do thus leaving welfare as an emergency net for those on hard times not for those who just want another plasma tv "cos I'm entitled and I am worth it". Remember the fuss about four years ago how the government should bail out those on negative equity? Mortgages and shares are a gamble. "Society" needs a major rethink.

[G-Unit]

If you look at the size of our welfare budget maybe someone should propose something really reactionary. Like if you can afford to pay for it you do thus leaving welfare as an emergency net for those on hard times not for those who just want another plasma tv "cos I'm entitled and I am worth it". Remember the fuss about four years ago how the government should bail out those on negative equity? Mortgages and shares are a gamble. "Society" needs a major rethink.

It's all crazy. A pensioner with less than approx £168 a week coming in gets housing and council tax benefits. So a pensioner needs £168 each week to live on.

Job seekers allowance gives claimants approx £75 a week to live on. 

Pensioners get free bus passes in most places, but job seekers have to pay fares to get to interviews or to get to the Job Centre to sign on.

Pensioners get £200 extra to keep warm in winter. Those on job seekers allowance get nothing.

The only possible reason for the difference is that pensioners are seen as 'deserving' help, job seekers aren't.

[Alice Purjorick]

It's all crazy. A pensioner with less than approx £168 a week coming in gets housing and council tax benefits. So a pensioner needs £168 each week to live on.

Job seekers allowance gives claimants approx £75 a week to live on. 

Pensioners get free bus passes in most places, but job seekers have to pay fares to get to interviews or to get to the Job Centre to sign on.

Pensioners get £200 extra to keep warm in winter. Those on job seekers allowance get nothing.

The only possible reason for the difference is that pensioners are seen as 'deserving' help, job seekers aren't.

I think PIP blows that idea out of the water, but imo the whole welfare system needs revision. No frigging about round the edges just thwack it all right between the eyes and start again.
The term pensioner is too emotive. It casts a spectre of poor Billy from Barnsley with flat cap and whippet and scarcely two ha'pennies to rub together or Eva from Leicester with water on the knee from kneeling down red leading her front step.
Today there are those "pensioners" who contributed to the state pension including the SERPS bit, contributed to a final salary occupational pension scheme have no mortgage made a killing on their property and generally are making money faster than they can spend it. They should pay for what they can afford by way of their own welfare. Too many of them seem to think it is their God given right to deprive others by taking state handouts they don't need just so they can leave some dynastic pile to their kids. Then they have the brass neck to complain of scroungers.

[misty]

It's all crazy. A pensioner with less than approx £168 a week coming in gets housing and council tax benefits. So a pensioner needs £168 each week to live on.

Job seekers allowance gives claimants approx £75 a week to live on. 

Pensioners get free bus passes in most places, but job seekers have to pay fares to get to interviews or to get to the Job Centre to sign on.

Pensioners get £200 extra to keep warm in winter. Those on job seekers allowance get nothing.

The only possible reason for the difference is that pensioners are seen as 'deserving' help, job seekers aren't.

It's a bit more complicated than that, though. Most pensioners do not have the option of continuous paid employment & are dependant on the fixed income from their pension & any additional allowances. Personally I don't begrudge any pensioner the winter heating allowance & it's normally only the poorer who use the free bus travel.
 There are those who have worked all their life & contributed to National Insurance which helps pay, amongst other things, for very generous pensions received by those who have worked in the public sector. The same contributions also cover unemployment benefits so perhaps you would advocate a redistribution of the funds in favour of the long term "won't work" brigade who also may be eligible for housing benefit/universal credit.
I agree with Alice that the system needs an overhaul but there are so many variations in cost of living expenses depending on which part of the country you live in & what additional care costs you need. I wonder how much care the £5M (& increasing) currently being paid for the PFI in the NHS run up by the last Labour gov would cover as well as the costs involved in the cancelled Schools for the Future scheme?

[G-Unit]

I think PIP blows that idea out of the water, but imo the whole welfare system needs revision. No frigging about round the edges just thwack it all right between the eyes and start again.
The term pensioner is too emotive. It casts a spectre of poor Billy from Barnsley with flat cap and whippet and scarcely two ha'pennies to rub together or Eva from Leicester with water on the knee from kneeling down red leading her front step.
Today there are those "pensioners" who contributed to the state pension including the SERPS bit, contributed to a final salary occupational pension scheme have no mortgage made a killing on their property and generally are making money faster than they can spend it. They should pay for what they can afford by way of their own welfare. Too many of them seem to think it is their God given right to deprive others by taking state handouts they don't need just so they can leave some dynastic pile to their kids. Then they have the brass neck to complain of scroungers.

PIP is for the disabled, not pensioners or job seekers? When I was young you claimed dole or national assistance which wasn't enough for anyone to live on. The only people who claimed it long term were the truly workshy, however, because there was full employment. I would like to see full employment again, even though it costs money because I would rather the government subsidised people to work than pay them not to work. Then penalising claimants would only affect the truly workshy.

[Alice Purjorick]

PIP is for the disabled, not pensioners or job seekers? When I was young you claimed dole or national assistance which wasn't enough for anyone to live on. The only people who claimed it long term were the truly workshy, however, because there was full employment. I would like to see full employment again, even though it costs money because I would rather the government subsidised people to work than pay them not to work. Then penalising claimants would only affect the truly workshy.

PIP was DLA. DLA extended beyond the age of 65. Today it's replacement, PIP, stops at 65. There is a thingy called Care Allowance or some such which is available for those who are just about completely hepless. It leaves a ruck of people over 65 who may find their ability to escape the prison of their own four walls is severely limited because they cannot afford the wherewithall and there is no longer a state funded system to help them.