Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB

[Erngath]

I haven't seen enough posts from you to draw any conclusions as yet.   But if you agree with Davel there isn't much hope for your posts to impress me.

I'm quite content with both the sentiments expressed in your post.
I don't post very often especially in the last few months and yes I certainly agree with the content of Davel's posts.
So I doubt there is any hope of my impressing you.

[Robittybob1]

I'm quite content with both the sentiments expressed in your post.
I don't post very often especially in the last few months and yes I certainly agree with the content of Davel's posts.
So I doubt there is any hope of my impressing you.

Your post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7066.msg310194#msg310194  Prompted me to look up who Katie Hopkins is and I found this speech by her:

(you can listen to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgTBU8Mqjzg )
"Katie Hopkins: Madeleine McCann Will Never Come Home
26 February 2017, 11:31

On her Sunday morning LBC show Katie Hopkins had something to get off her chest about missing Madeleine McCann.

She told her listeners: "You know it seems to me, it's one of those subjects you've never been allowed to speak about, we're not really allowed, in my personal view, to speak about Maddie McCann. 

"When I used to write for a different newspaper, I often asked to speak about Maddie, write about Maddie, and I was never allowed. I was told I wouldn't be taking the story forwards.  And finally after campaigning at the Mail, I was allowed to write about Maddie and my belief that...Maddie is never coming home.

"In my opinion, Maddie will never be found. You know for me, I believe, no amount of money and no amount of libel action will ever cancel out the damage that the McCanns have brought and inflicted upon themselves. 

"I've always said, you know, I don't believe we should have spent £11 million pounds, for example, to look for Maddie. And I do not believe we've seen an equal treatment.

"A man was charged for leaving his daughter in a car for two minutes while he raced into a chemist to get Calpol for her and he was charged with that offence. 

"And I do believe if the McCanns had come from a council estate, you know we would have seen them treated very differently to the way that they have been treated over this. 

"I still see Kate McCann's face being used to front up, you know, campaigns to help find children when they're lost, which of course is something we'd all support, but I find it very difficult to offer support when it's Kate McCann's face that's standing up as the concerned mother looking for missing children. 

"It seems to me that she's the very opposite person to use. I believe that was one of the least successful campaigns of all times. It strikes me the BBC, for example, were in on it as well. 

"You know they have the Crimewatch programme for the McCanns where they release new photofit. Photofits that the McCanns have been sitting on for five years because they didn't want to release them at the time.

"It strikes me, speaking very openly here on national radio, live on the radio, that the McCanns were the ones that put their children in harm's way, they were the ones that went out for dinner and left their children without a babysitter. 

"For me I've always said the blame must sit with Kate and Gerry McCann. I have no problem with saying that either.

"You know I think when we give birth to children, when I gave birth to my first daughter, I remember waking up that morning, looking over, seeing this tiny little thing in this little cot next to me and thinking oh my gosh A.  'That's mine', you know, B.  'How did that happen?  I'm not old enough or sensible enough to have a baby'.

"You are born that day, you are born yourself, reborn with something called 'The Fear'. You know it's a fear and it's with you every day, every minute, right now as I sit here. 

"The fear.  Are my children safe?  Are they well?  Telling them, reminding them to be careful how you cross the road when we just go to the spar, look left and right at this zebra crossing because the drivers won't stop. 

"It's the fear, it's that time in the supermarket where they're out of your sight for one second, I can feel it now. There's a prickle that comes on your palm, the thought that something bad might happen to your children. That's a feeling every parent knows. 

"My three children still have their little bunnies, you know their little cuddle bunnies, and those bunnies on their beds now, I can see them, I know they're just rags really.  But I know if one of my children were ever taken from me for health or whatever.

"I don't know if I'd go on, but I know I would sleep with that under my pillow every night, every night until I went, or my daughter was found.  You know and I think this is the truth of millions of parents out there across Great Britain.

"This is the truth that is not spoken about Maddie McCann, and this is why we must all remain and stand strong for Maddie McCann.

"You know it strikes me that in this instance, Maddie wasn't lost because someone took her. I believe Maddie was lost because she was left to be found.  So thank you for letting me share that."

[Robittybob1]

How does that work exactly "Maddie wasn't lost because someone took her. I believe Maddie was lost because she was left to be found."
So someone found her?   Who worried about Madeleine before she was lost?  Did anyone take concern for the McCann children because they had been "left to be found"?

I believe there were some that did.

[Venturi Swirl]

Rob, just in case you didn’t know it - Katie Hopkins is one of the most hateful and hated public figures in Britain.   Her above diatribe (whilst much admired by sceptics) is just one example of her hatefulness.  I brlieve she has been denied most media platforms now so is less able to spread her hate.

[Mr Gray]

How does that work exactly "Maddie wasn't lost because someone took her. I believe Maddie was lost because she was left to be found."
So someone found her?   Who worried about Madeleine before she was lost?  Did anyone take concern for the McCann children because they had been "left to be found"?

I believe there were some that did.

It seems there is enough evidence that the person is CB

[Mr Gray]

Are you suggesting that Madeleine grazed her knee in the UK and then waited until she reached 5A to squash herself behind a sofa to bleed? That sounds likely (not).

I'm pretty sure you don't have any evidence that TS's grandfather lived in 5A.

I'm not an expert on the training and handling of those dogs, which is why, unlike some, I refrain from criticising the actions of those who are experts.

I think you are quite misguided to suggest lay people cannot question experts. Pretty well all the experts say smoking causes cancer but you disagree. You are quite happy to criticise experts when it suits you.
In actual fact I believe just about everything Grime has said...so your criticism of me is mistaken

[G-Unit]

The enhanced part.  And the cadaver part.

It is my understanding that at the time that Eddie was deployed on the Madeleine case, the only cadavers that Eddie had come across were animal, non human ones, young pigs.   It was against The Law to use Human cadavers in the UK for such training work.  Because he was trained on pigs carcases he was (artificially, IMO) given the status of 'Enhanced'.  This made Eddie sound important IMO and helped sell his services.

In the USA, human carcases were used and some time after Eddies time on the Madeleine case, this so called enhanced dog went to the States.   There he was trained on human carcases.   But it is my belief that it was after 'The Madeleine case', not before.

So now we have the well trained Eddie who will alert to

1)  dessicated human blood odour from a living person
2)  Cadaver odour from a human corpse, and
3)  Cadaver odour from a piglet


Does this mean that now that he is trained for human cadaver odour, so recognises 3 different odours, he will need a third dog to sort out between pig cadaver odour and human cadaver odour?

He only needed one (keela) before

You seem to be accusing Martin Grime of telling lies. Isn't that what Brietta refers to as 'implied libel'? There's absolutely no reason to suppose Grime lied about his experience and knowledge. It would have been very foolish to risk destroying his own credibility at a time when he was retiring from the police and setting up his own business.

Pig is used as it has been proven in training and operationally over the last 20 years to be a reliable analogue for human remains detecting training for dogs...

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States.These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Mr Gray]

You seem to be accusing Martin Grime of telling lies. Isn't that what Brietta refers to as 'implied libel'? There's absolutely no reason to suppose Grime lied about his experience and knowledge. It would have been very foolish to risk destroying his own credibility at a time when he was retiring from the police and setting up his own business.

Pig is used as it has been proven in training and operationally over the last 20 years to be a reliable analogue for human remains detecting training for dogs...

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States.These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It's not about telling lies...it's about stretching the truth. Many professionals do it in their CVs

[Venturi Swirl]

It's not about telling lies...it's about stretching the truth. Many professionals do it in their CVs

It’s actually called marketing, most businesses do it, and when they do they tend to overstate rather than understate their experience, abilities and efficiency, IMO.

[Mr Gray]

It’s actually called marketing, most businesses do it, and when they do they tend to overstate rather than understate their experience, abilities and efficiency, IMO.

I think most people understand that..and zGrime was launching his commercial business

[Brietta]

You seem to be accusing Martin Grime of telling lies. Isn't that what Brietta refers to as 'implied libel'? There's absolutely no reason to suppose Grime lied about his experience and knowledge. It would have been very foolish to risk destroying his own credibility at a time when he was retiring from the police and setting up his own business.

Pig is used as it has been proven in training and operationally over the last 20 years to be a reliable analogue for human remains detecting training for dogs...

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States.These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

You are mistaken in your opinion.

I would not class Sadie's post as being "implied libel" or libellous innuendo for the simple reason I am capable of recognising and differentiating between insidious intent as opposed to what I say is the intent.  If you feel it is the remedy is in your hands.

However although I thank you for recognising my expertise in this field it is worth noting it really is nothing at all to do with me ~ it is actually covered by the courts and libel laws.

The Policia Judiciaria discarded the dog evidence used to make the McCanns arguidos back in 2007 and verified that conclusion back in 2008.
Maybe my Christmas pressie this year will be when members finally catch up.

[Mr Gray]

It’s actually called marketing, most businesses do it, and when they do they tend to overstate rather than understate their experience, abilities and efficiency, IMO.

It's when those statements get taken into the legal arena that problems start.
In the recently posted US court case..Stockham testified that the alerts ..to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty,....they don't...could that be construed as a lie. ”

[Eleanor]

How does that work exactly "Maddie wasn't lost because someone took her. I believe Maddie was lost because she was left to be found."
So someone found her?   Who worried about Madeleine before she was lost?  Did anyone take concern for the McCann children because they had been "left to be found"?

I believe there were some that did.

In other words, it's your fault if a paedophile steals your child while it is left unattended as you encouraged the paedophile to do this.

[Lace]

How long does a body have to lie before cadaver is produced? truth is no one knows, controlled experiments show X,real terms?

The fresh stage of decay kicks off about four minutes after death. Once the heart has stopped beating, the cells in the body are deprived of oxygen. As carbon dioxide and waste products build up, the cells start to break down as a result of enzymatic processes – these are known as autolysis. Initial visual signs of decomposition are minimal, although as autolysis progresses blisters and sloughing of skin may occur.

https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/10/30/decompositionodour/

Millions of people have died some longer than four minutes,  they have been resuscitated,   are you saying that a cadaver dog would alert to the body?   I don't think so.

[G-Unit]

It's not about telling lies...it's about stretching the truth. Many professionals do it in their CVs

An accusation of lying;

"some time after Eddies time on the Madeleine case, this so called enhanced dog went to the States.   There he was trained on human carcases.   But it is my belief that it was after 'The Madeleine case', not before."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11731.msg625589#msg625589

Grime quite clearly said he had been to America BEFORE he was called to PdL.