Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835460 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2015, 08:02:30 PM »
Well Keela wasn't used as back up in any of the other apartments or villas inspected, as Eddie didn't alert at all, for either blood or cadaver scent.

Ok, thanks for explaining vis a vis saliva. IIRC police screened bedclothing, found a substance, and checked for DNA matches. That is nothing to do with "several" people who alledgedly bled in the apartment, leading the dogs to alert. I have read the FSS Lowe report, there is no reference in it to any previous holidaymakers, their blood, or DNA. (Except for the child whose saliva was DNA matched)


You are welcome, mercury,
The blood found in 5A, was inconclusive as there was very small amount or it was from multiple unidentified
persons. If there was no match it would not have been recorded. Dna swabs were taken from many people.

The link, but you will have to wade through to find them.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3582.msg136981#msg136981
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2015, 08:10:02 PM »
Exactly, so back to the original question - don't you find it odd that there were no traces of blood anywhere at all except on McCann-related property?

No, the main reason being I do not believe that Eddie is capable of screening a room for microscopic remnants of blood, that is not what he was trained to do. Keela was.

So there is every possibility that there were traces of blood in other places apart from flat 5A. That is not what the dogs were brought in for

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2015, 08:12:15 PM »
No, the main reason being I do not believe that Eddie is capable of screening a room for microscopic remnants of blood, that is not what he was trained to do. Keela was.

So there is every possibility that there were traces of blood in other places apart from flat 5A. That is not what the dogs were brought in for
Except, he obviously does alert to microscopic traces of blood as verified by Keela!

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2015, 08:12:31 PM »

You are welcome, mercury,
The blood found in 5A, was inconclusive as there was very small amount or it was from multiple unidentified
persons. If there was no match it would not have been recorded. Dna swabs were taken from many people.

The link, but you will have to wade through to find them.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3582.msg136981#msg136981

Ok, no worries. I thought you were suggesting that all the previous several holidaymakers who bled in 5A had their dna taken. And thank you for the link, will have a gander.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2015, 08:13:45 PM »
Except, he obviously does alert to microscopic traces of blood as verified by Keela!

Err, I don't think you can assert that, or even infer it

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2015, 08:14:27 PM »
No, the main reason being I do not believe that Eddie is capable of screening a room for microscopic remnants of blood, that is not what he was trained to do. Keela was.

So there is every possibility that there were traces of blood in other places apart from flat 5A. That is not what the dogs were brought in for

Eddie was trained as a forensic blood detecting dog. He was later trained as a cadaver dog, but they could not un-train him to detect blood.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2015, 08:19:05 PM »
Eddie was trained as a forensic blood detecting dog. He was later trained as a cadaver dog, but they could not un-train him to detect blood.

Was he? That's news to me. You got a reference for that Anna? If he was trained as Keela was, I ask again, why the need for that dog? Mr Grime has told us what Eddie was trained to do, and it wasn't to be a forensic blood dog. But you may correct me.

I have to go for a short while but will respond later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2015, 08:22:40 PM »
I was only asking about the algal bloom. So you postulation is it must be there if there no evidence to suggest  it isn't there.
But blooms that are large enough to cause problems can be seen. So by extension if you can't see it it must be there.
I think I understand that.

I did not say "must be there"?  I rather think that is what you said I said.

I have given examples of things which may have caused Eddie's sensitive nose to pick up scents to which his training had taught him to react.

Mr Amaral had not thought through all the possibilities, preferring instead to latch on to the one which best suited his theory and would lead, not to finding a missing child, but to the prosecution of her parents.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2015, 08:24:11 PM »
Eddie was trained as a forensic blood detecting dog. He was later trained as a cadaver dog, but they could not un-train him to detect blood.

I'm not sure about that, Anna.  I think it is the case with most cadaver dogs that they will detect blood as well, by default, because blood is a constituent part of any corpse.
 
I think the difference between Eddie and Morse is that Morse was desensitised to blood, and the idea of the Keela and Morse combination was that you had one dog to detect blood and another to detect cadaver odour. 

Remember that a reaction from Morse under the US forensic canine programme was accepted as stand-alone evidence of murder (not applicable with most cadaver dogs).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 08:27:09 PM by ferryman »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2015, 08:29:01 PM »
Err, I don't think you can assert that, or even infer it
So if Eddie alerts and Keela alerts at the same place what conclusion can we draw, if any?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2015, 08:31:14 PM »
So if Eddie alerts and Keela alerts at the same place what conclusion can we draw, if any?

Should equal blood but no cadaver scent.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2015, 08:37:44 PM »
Do you not find it also to be a coincidence, Mercury, that No blood traces (old or new) were found anywhere else either.
In all the years that this holiday complex has stood there...............No-one bled in that block except for 5A, where we know that several holiday makers bled?

Do you know that Keela didn't go in to the other apartments? You don't understand that the dogs work as a TEAM going from your post. Eddie and Keela don't go in to sniff every inch of the apartments looking for blood traces. Eddie goes in first to detect cadaver scent in a missing person case. Their job is to investigate if death occurred at the crime scene. If Eddie alerts then Keela is sent in to investigate that alerted area (not the whole apartment!) to find any traces of blood.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 08:49:43 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #102 on: May 13, 2015, 08:37:54 PM »
Being surrounded by a lakeful of algae had no effect on this dog -
Working from a boat on a lake, cadaver dog Duke accurately located a body 15 feet underwater.
http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2014/07/31/rescuers-searching-drowning-victim-lake-julian/13430441/

Don't see any mention of algae in that link, pegasus, it does mention a "swirling current" which would have dispersed any blooms I would imagine.
I also doubt if a dog handler would have exposed his animal to anything as toxic.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2015, 08:41:49 PM »
"The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes"
http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
So the hypothesis in the VeM book which has PMI of only 45 mins must be incorrect IMO
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 08:44:00 PM by pegasus »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2015, 08:45:05 PM »
Do you know why Keela didn't go in to the other apartments? You don't understand that the dogs work as a TEAM going from your post. Eddie and Keela don't go in to sniff every inch of the apartments looking for blood traces. Eddie goes in first to detect cadaver scent in a missing person case. Their job is to investigate if death occurred at the crime scene. If Eddie alerts then Keela is sent in to investigate that alerted area (not the whole apartment!) to find any traces of blood.
Why did Eddie alert to a sex tissue then?