Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835631 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #525 on: May 20, 2015, 11:23:34 PM »
Are you Dave no 2? Forgetting my previous replies? I already said we have no record of Keela inspecting the toy but if she did, then yes, she would hone her nose into the exact spot where blood was. With a toy it might not be that specific to a c m , depends how silly you want to get

What would she do if it was on the underside?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #526 on: May 20, 2015, 11:27:27 PM »
Are you Dave no 2? Forgetting my previous replies? I already said we have no record of Keela inspecting the toy but if she did, then yes, she would hone her nose into the exact spot where blood was. With a toy it might not be that specific to a c m , depends how silly you want to get
Are you planning to insult me in every reply you make to me? 

Any reason why Keela would not have been asked to sniff out traces of blood or cadaver juice on the toy? 


Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #527 on: May 20, 2015, 11:28:18 PM »
What would she do if it was on the underside?
If there is blood there Keela will find it... (Source: Mr Grime, SY police dog handler)

Topside or other

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #528 on: May 20, 2015, 11:33:44 PM »
Are you planning to insult me in every reply you make to me? 

Any reason why Keela would not have been asked to sniff out traces of blood or cadaver juice on the toy?

A) I havenot insulted you in every post Ive made to you so why say as much? Bit rich though coming from someone who insults people at will here, never mind though
B) I have no idea because, for the third time, wehave no record, so please explain, seeing as there is no record why I would know of any reason

I did write  a pertinent C) but someones removed it oh well
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 11:45:05 PM by mercury »

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #529 on: May 20, 2015, 11:40:36 PM »
If there is blood there Keela will find it... (Source: Mr Grime, SY police dog handler)

Topside or other

She wouldn't be able to point her nose at if it was on the underside, would she.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #530 on: May 20, 2015, 11:46:05 PM »
She wouldn't be able to point her nose at if it was on the underside, would she.

Dont know dont care but carry on trashing the dogs, night dear

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #531 on: May 20, 2015, 11:48:43 PM »
She wouldn't be able to point her nose at if it was on the underside, would she.

Yes she would. She finds blood on weapons that have been wiped clean. Do you think they don't check the underside of them?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #532 on: May 21, 2015, 06:02:32 AM »
We have discussed the situation on many occasions on the forum and the situation regarding the deployment and the payment exceeding the Chief Constables salary debunked every time.

DCI posted ...

Grime claims that in a 6 year period in Britain, Eddie was deployed over 200 times.

This disclosure under Freedom of Information (FOI) indicates just 37 deployments in the 5 year period 2003-2007.

Either Eddie must have had one very busy year or Grime has got his sums wrong.
 
http://www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/20090062
 
Some States in America use human cadavers to train cadaver dogs on what are known as ‘body farms’. Grime claims that Eddie has been trained on such a farm in the States.

An FOI answer to a question I have submitted cited parts of a Personal Development review for the Year 2005-6 when it was stated that Eddie (then aged 5 or 6, and close to retirement) had been to the States for that training. The cited justification was, not that it would improve Eddie’s performance, but that it would “generate some income potential”.
 
Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documentation confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.
 
Still, Grime describes both Eddie and Keela as the only “assets” (as he describes them) of their type in the world. Clearly Eddie’s apparent training on a body farm in America wouldn't make him that, because many dogs in America are trained the same, so what would?
Whatever it is, perhaps that is why there are no references to the “Enhanced” Victim Recovery dog status outside Eddie and Grime?
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1626.20;wap2

Thanks for this Brietta.  And DCI.

I've never been overly impressed by the dogs.  I find them more fun and games than hard fact.

One of the flags was the 'deployed 200 times' warning marker.  That sounded like one hell of a lot of unsolved dead/missing body cases.

However, I'm sure that you can understand that searching for 'cadaver dogs' on a forum like this is a pointless exercise.

 8((()*/
What's up, old man?

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #533 on: May 21, 2015, 08:03:14 AM »
Thanks for this Brietta.  And DCI.

I've never been overly impressed by the dogs.  I find them more fun and games than hard fact.

One of the flags was the 'deployed 200 times' warning marker.  That sounded like one hell of a lot of unsolved dead/missing body cases.

However, I'm sure that you can understand that searching for 'cadaver dogs' on a forum like this is a pointless exercise.

 8((()*/

That grew arms and legs...

From his résumé:
- In six years operational deployment in over 200 cases the dog has never alerted to meat based foodstuffs.

- The dog has never alerted to 'road kill'


In his report, "cases" became modified to "case searches":

In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches
the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption
. Similarly the
dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

How it can be said that he's never reacted to a dead animal is a mystery to me, as he was trained on dead piglets and there's no mention of which types of road kill he had effectively encountered.


Then, from an FOI disclosure (no longer online at the SYP site), it seems that Eddie had only been deployed a total of 37 times between 2003 and 2007.

Information relating directly to the nature of each Victim Search Dog deployment, if made public could cause unnecessary distress to the persons and families connected with the deceased. However, we can provide the following details regarding Victim Search Dog deployments between 2003 and 2007:

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/20090062 (dead link)

Tavares de Almeida understood this to mean:
It must be highlighted that the resource to this kind of inspection is frequent in the UK and the success rate is 100%.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

I've seen this morphed by fans into the assertion that Eddie had a 100% success rate and secured over 200 convictions...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 08:07:14 AM by Carana »

Offline Montclair

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #534 on: May 21, 2015, 09:28:43 AM »
This reminds me of when people believed the premise that the sun revolved around the earth. If someone produced scientific evidence of the contrary, it was immediately dismissed as heresy and the person who presented this evidence was punished.

Some here start, with blind faith, with the premise that the McCanns are innocent, thus any evidence to the contrary is immediately dismissed as irrelevant and as heresy. Furthermore, the persons who doubt them are treated as heretics or with the new word "troll".

What I am saying is that if the dogs had alerted to anyone else the same number of times they had alerted to the parents, you would never dismiss them as you do now.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #535 on: May 21, 2015, 09:56:36 AM »
This reminds me of when people believed the premise that the sun revolved around the earth. If someone produced scientific evidence of the contrary, it was immediately dismissed as heresy and the person who presented this evidence was punished.

Some here start, with blind faith, with the premise that the McCanns are innocent, thus any evidence to the contrary is immediately dismissed as irrelevant and as heresy. Furthermore, the persons who doubt them are treated as heretics or with the new word "troll".

What I am saying is that if the dogs had alerted to anyone else the same number of times they had alerted to the parents, you would never dismiss them as you do now.

Excellent post.  8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #536 on: May 21, 2015, 10:04:13 AM »
This reminds me of when people believed the premise that the sun revolved around the earth. If someone produced scientific evidence of the contrary, it was immediately dismissed as heresy and the person who presented this evidence was punished.

Some here start, with blind faith, with the premise that the McCanns are innocent, thus any evidence to the contrary is immediately dismissed as irrelevant and as heresy. Furthermore, the persons who doubt them are treated as heretics or with the new word "troll".

What I am saying is that if the dogs had alerted to anyone else the same number of times they had alerted to the parents, you would never dismiss them as you do now.

Some people here begin with the premiss that the McCanns are guilty, despite there being no evidence to back the premiss up.

It is a rather curious and about-face way of recommending that justice is done, thank goodness, not subscribed to by the powers-that-be in Portugal.

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #537 on: May 21, 2015, 10:21:15 AM »
This reminds me of when people believed the premise that the sun revolved around the earth. If someone produced scientific evidence of the contrary, it was immediately dismissed as heresy and the person who presented this evidence was punished.

Some here start, with blind faith, with the premise that the McCanns are innocent, thus any evidence to the contrary is immediately dismissed as irrelevant and as heresy. Furthermore, the persons who doubt them are treated as heretics or with the new word "troll".

What I am saying is that if the dogs had alerted to anyone else the same number of times they had alerted to the parents, you would never dismiss them as you do now.


I disagree.   IMO one of the main differences between 'supporters' and 'sceptics' is that supporters have made up their minds based on the available evidence, whilst many sceptics have made up their minds based on lies, myths and disinformation - which even after 8 years are STILL being trotted out over the internet as 'the troof' on a regular basis.   

This includes myths and disinformation about the dogs from sceptics who want to believe that if Eddie alerted then it is a FACT  that a dead body must have been present at 5A - even though Martin Grime emphasized that it is NOT a FACT and points out that there are various other innocent reasons why an alert may occur. 

Some sceptics have done exactly the same as Amaral and cherry picked only what suits them regarding the dogs  - and completely ignored everything about the dogs which doesn't suit them - pretending it doesn't exist.

Fortunately that is not how SY carry out their investigations.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #538 on: May 21, 2015, 10:29:36 AM »
Please try and stay on topic

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #539 on: May 21, 2015, 10:48:46 AM »
This reminds me of when people believed the premise that the sun revolved around the earth. If someone produced scientific evidence of the contrary, it was immediately dismissed as heresy and the person who presented this evidence was punished.

Some here start, with blind faith, with the premise that the McCanns are innocent, thus any evidence to the contrary is immediately dismissed as irrelevant and as heresy. Furthermore, the persons who doubt them are treated as heretics or with the new word "troll".

What I am saying is that if the dogs had alerted to anyone else the same number of times they had alerted to the parents, you would never dismiss them as you do now.

as has been pointed out...the sceptics believe lies ands myths.....the McCann supporters can see through all the propaganda that has come out of Portugal and look at things logically..