Amaral and the dogs

[mercury]

IMO the theory in VDM film is proved incorrect by the minimum time the CSST experiment found.

That is only if you believe Madeleine Mccann was alive at 9.15... Just saying

[Brietta]

More recently, it's Eddie who helps to find a body buried under a flagstone at the former orphanage, Haut-de-la-Garenne, in Jersey, setting for a terrible case of paedophilia and child murder. Goncalo Amaral



One truly has to wonder at the unswerving belief in a view of the world which is at variance with matters of record.

The coconut shell was not a body ... the bones were animal ... the teeth were milk teeth.  Where did it say anything about a body being buried under a flagstone in the pages of  Operation HAVEN?

[Alfred R Jones]

I wouldn't know see my previous post.
If we are going to preface with "I would have thought" or insert "logically" or "You don't have to know anything about dogs to know something about them" and similar, into opinions it suggests we don't know.
You may think you know; I know I don't know.

Come now Alice, we are told the blood dog signals the precise presence of microscopic traces of blood with her nose.  There is only one way that a dog can alert to something that small at anything approaching precisision and that is by hovering its nose precisely and closely over the speck.  Perhaps if it had fingers it could be trained to point with one of those instead, perhaps that will be the next generation of wonder dog to be developed.

[pegasus]

The routine change was earlier.

Routine changes never has solved a case, science of dogs has.

[ShiningInLuz]

The police do not consider them "fun and games". They don't have a budget for this.

Read the False Alerts section here :

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It clearly states that Eddie was used 200 times but not in 200 cases

200 criminal case "searches" is the clue

SY has a budget for fun and games.

The mound they searched in mid-2014 is/was - probably occupied by one Godfrey Barrington Norton in May 2007 - a main route into Luz from the west side of the town and from Burgau - overlooked by the Paraíso development and the St James complex - probably overlooked by the Amici Italian restaurant (it opened in 2007 and it makes sense to open it at the start of season, but I don't know that for a fact, hence the probably) - it looks like a nothing little road going through the mound, but the reality is that the one-way system forces traffic to use it - and you can't manually dig holes in the middle of Luz without one hell of a lot of time, one hell of a lot of effort and one hell of a lot of noise.

The cemetery uses a JCB for graves, ditto all the drain schemes and road works.

Yet we had SY with pickaxes and shovels.  In central Luz.  If you are old enough you will remember Brian Rix farces.

What has this got to do with Amaral and the dogs?  The dogs were marketed as rocket science, when they were anything but.  I have had months to examine the capability of the dogs.  The timescale on the case was much shorter, and the information available then is what I would describe as skewed.

[pegasus]

Witness JW testifies the chat was completly normal. Theories of some early disaster are made by forums not by VDM. Back to dogs, had the dog ever been tested on scent pads of PMIs of only tens of minutes?
(In experiment with 5 trained dogs, none of them alerted the 1 hr 10 mins sample)

[pegasus]

SY has a budget for fun and games.

The mound they searched in mid-2014 is/was - probably occupied by one Godfrey Barrington Norton in May 2007 - a main route into Luz from the west side of the town and from Burgau - overlooked by the Paraíso development and the St James complex - probably overlooked by the Amici Italian restaurant (it opened in 2007 and it makes sense to open it at the start of season, but I don't know that for a fact, hence the probably) - it looks like a nothing little road going through the mound, but the reality is that the one-way system forces traffic to use it - and you can't manually dig holes in the middle of Luz without one hell of a lot of time, one hell of a lot of effort and one hell of a lot of noise.

The cemetery uses a JCB for graves, ditto all the drain schemes and road works.

Yet we had SY with pickaxes and shovels.  In central Luz.  If you are old enough you will remember Brian Rix farces.

What has this got to do with Amaral and the dogs?  The dogs were marketed as rocket science, when they were anything but.  I have had months to examine the capability of the dogs.  The timescale on the case was much shorter, and the information available then is what I would describe as skewed.

The dogs are very valuable and not make huge wrong assumptions like human investigators do. In a recent case a dog indicated to an attic but was ignored first time by investigators. The dog was right BTW.
You identify the hill right and that night a group of early searchers including nannies went up there and spoke with him (nothing to do with the case).

[pathfinder73]

Routine changes never has solved a case, science of dogs has.

It will all be there in the end case as it all connects.

[Mr Gray]

the thread concerns whether amaral was correct to draw the conclusions he did re the dogs...the answer is simple ...he wasn't..... he has misled a lot of poeple

[slartibartfast]

the thread concerns whether amaral was correct to draw the conclusions he did re the dogs...the answer is simple ...he wasn't..... he has misled a lot of poeple

Until it is known what happened you cannot say his conclusions were incorrect.

[Brietta]

The dogs are very valuable and not make huge wrong assumptions like human investigators do. In a recent case a dog indicated to an attic but was ignored first time by investigators. The dog was right BTW.
You identify the hill right and that night a group of early searchers including nannies went up there and spoke with him (nothing to do with the case).

With respect, pegasus, I think if SY went to the bother of going to the mound to search, it indicates that it had something to do with the case.

That we do not know what that is or what their purpose was, is neither here nor there.

The fact that Mr Amaral was dismissive of their efforts seems to me to be a tad unprofessional ... so nothing new there.

[Brietta]

I find it intriguing that in his book, Mr Amaral enumerates Eddie's successes in validation of his non success in Praia da Luz with examples of his involvement in cases ... every single one of which ... resulted in the subsequent discovery of human remains.

[Eleanor]

Off Topic Deletions will commence very shortly.

[pegasus]

I find it intriguing that in his book, Mr Amaral enumerates Eddie's successes in validation of his non success in Praia da Luz with examples of his involvement in cases ... every single one of which ... resulted in the subsequent discovery of human remains.

If an EVRD alerts at a small area where no physical evidence is subsequently found, this means the source was moved from that small area to somewhere else. For example in recent UK case an EVRD alerted to small area on carpet of a room. No physical evidence of a source was found at that small area.

[Brietta]

If an EVRD alerts at a small area where no physical evidence is subsequently found, this means the source was moved from that small area to somewhere else. For example in recent UK case an EVRD alerted to small area on carpet of a room. No physical evidence of a source was found at that small area.

No it does not.

The dog can locate the edge of a scent cone.

It is interesting that the Welsh dog teams who came to Praia da Luz were a pair.  It is interesting that Martin Grime and his dogs also worked with another team when in Britain.