Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[Robittybob1]

Nail clippings are dead keratinized tissue. No cadaver required. The same alpha-keratin protein is also found in the epidermis layer of human skin.

So in the way you think about this, is the cadaver odour only developing in the finger nail clipping after it was cut or is it happening as the finger nail is growing?

Like could a lady with quite long fingernails be attractive to a cadaver dog while she is still alive?

Or does the cadaver odour only develop after the nail is cut?

Personally I don't believe finger nails would ever become decomposed unless they were deliberately dampened down to encourage them to rot.

[G-Unit]

The second time Eddie went behind the sofa he bypassed the centre of the wall completely without making any sniffing noises.

Grime had already noted that he was scenting, or showing interest, which is why he sent him back in. His dog, his job, his knowledge. You don't have any of that knowledge, so I can't see how you can suggest he didn't know what he was doing.

[Mr Gray]

Grime had already noted that he was scenting, or showing interest, which is why he sent him back in. His dog, his job, his knowledge. You don't have any of that knowledge, so I can't see how you can suggest he didn't know what he was doing.

The whole episode sounds very imprecise which explains why the alerts themselves have no value or reliability as evidence

[G-Unit]

That's the whole point, Rob. The dog needs to be as precise as possible for the handler, not leave the handler to fathom out which person in the general area may be carrying drugs.

Drug dogs working with people will obviously need to identify which person is of interest, just as drug dogs screening baggage will need to identify which piece of luggage is of interest. There would be no point in the dog barking at a conveyor belt full of luggage, would there?

The cadaver dog's job is different. They work in widely different locations and the scent isn't always in the same place as the body.

[Mr Gray]

Drug dogs working with people will obviously need to identify which person is of interest, just as drug dogs screening baggage will need to identify which piece of luggage is of interest. There would be no point in the dog barking at a conveyor belt full of luggage, would there?

The cadaver dog's job is different. They work in widely different locations and the scent isn't always in the same place as the body.

The difference is the only reference to remnant scent is, with cadaver dogs..... It doesn't seem to be mentioned  with other forensic dogs.. And it's, detection is unreliable... If there is a body present the scent will be with the body

[Sunny]

The difference is the only reference to remnant scent is, with cadaver dogs..... It doesn't seem to be mentioned  with other forensic dogs.. And it's, detection is unreliable... If there is a body present the scent will be with the body

Does that post make sense? Sorry it doesn't to me. As regards unreliability of cadaver dogs, just ask the family of  D'Andre Louis Lane's victim what they think of the dog's evidence.

[G-Unit]

Why would it leave only blood left to find? Eddie would have alerted to nail clippings as well as human teeth. What about Cerebrospinal fluid which can leak from the ear or nose after blunt force trauma - no blood mixed with that.

If cadaver dogs alert to nail clippings there wouldn't be much point in using them imo.

[Mr Gray]

Does that post make sense? Sorry it doesn't to me. As regards unreliability of cadaver dogs, just ask the family of  D'Andre Louis Lane's victim what they think of the dog's evidence.

Read my post again..... Alerts to remnant scent are unreliable.... That is a fact....

[Sunny]

Read my post again..... Alerts to remnant scent are unreliable.... That is a fact....

Is it a "fact", didn't Stockham say that Grime's dogs (Morse etc) had a reliability in tests in the high 90's percent. I wouldn't call that unreliable.

Can you find a cite that "remnant scent" alerts are...unreliable.

[Mr Gray]

Is it a "fact", didn't Stockham say that Grime's dogs (Morse etc) had a reliability in tests in the high 90's percent. I wouldn't call that unreliable.

Can you find a cite that "remnant scent" alerts are...unreliable.

remnant scent alerts are unreliable according to grime and harrison........You cite this 90% calim but havent given any details of what it refers to...is it remnant scent...you dont know

[slartibartfast]

remnant scent alerts are unreliable according to grime and harrison........You cite this 90% calim but havent given any details of what it refers to...is it remnant scent...you dont know

High 90s. Cite for your first sentence.

[Mr Gray]

High 90s. Cite for your first sentence.

but still no cite as to how this figure was arrived at...doesnt matter if its 100%...it has no relevance unless we know the details of the tests

[Mr Gray]

High 90s. Cite for your first sentence.

mark harrison...

After the conclusion of the searches, a meeting in the Portimao offices of the PJ took place in the cabinet of Goncalo AMARAL and those present included Guilermino ENCARNACO, an official representative from the Leicestershire police, Martin GRIME and myself. During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.

[G-Unit]

The difference is the only reference to remnant scent is, with cadaver dogs..... It doesn't seem to be mentioned  with other forensic dogs.. And it's, detection is unreliable... If there is a body present the scent will be with the body

If drugs have been in a person's luggage a drug dog will alert even though the drugs have been removed. If a cadaver has lain in a room a cadaver dog will alert in the room even though the cadaver has been removed.

[Mr Gray]

If drugs have been in a person's luggage a drug dog will alert even though the drugs have been removed. If a cadaver has lain in a room a cadaver dog will alert in the room even though the cadaver has been removed.

the dog will alert if there are physical traces of the drug remaining....imo..and these can be tested for physically