Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[Robittybob1]

The only value the alerts have is the information  that can be derived from them... Which is unreliable

I don't think that is scientific.  The alert is the action of a dog.  You are not going to derive anything from that.

[Venturi Swirl]

Davel didn't say "he said that the dogs were unreliable regarding the unconfirmed alerts" if you had read the entirety of my post you would see I was talking about Martin Grime and Davel's claims about what Grime said eg

Davel's post
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9940.msg478956#msg478956

I wanted a cite from Davel that Grime said they were "unreliable". I haven't had one. 

Davel is changing Grime and Harrisons words IMO. No reliability as evidence does not mean unreliable.

What, essentially is the main difference between no reliability as evidence and unreliable ?

[Mr Gray]

I don't think that is scientific.  The alert is the action of a dog.  You are not going to derive anything from that.

But posters here insist they can

[Robittybob1]

Davel didn't say "he said that the dogs were unreliable regarding the unconfirmed alerts" if you had read the entirety of my post you would see I was talking about Martin Grime and Davel's claims about what Grime said eg

Davel's post
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9940.msg478956#msg478956

I wanted a cite from Davel that Grime said they were "unreliable". I haven't had one. 

Davel is changing Grime and Harrisons words IMO. No reliability as evidence does not mean unreliable.

Splitting hairs there mate.

[Mr Gray]

Splitting hairs there mate.

I have said the unconfirmed  alerts are unreliable.... ie . They cannot be relied on... Perhaps Sunny or Slarti could explain in what way the alert s are reliable ...I don't expect them to be able to respond

[Robittybob1]

I have said the unconfirmed  alerts are unreliable.... ie . They cannot be relied on... Perhaps Sunny or Slarti could explain in what way the alert s are reliable ...I don't expect

Have you ever thought what evidence would confirm an alert?

[slartibartfast]

Splitting hairs there mate.

It is a serious distinction, think about it.

[Mr Gray]

It is a serious distinction, think about it.

then provide your reaons for thinking the alerts are relaible

[Mr Gray]

Have you ever thought what evidence would confirm an alert?

I prefer to clarify this point first rather than cloud the issue

[slartibartfast]

I have said the unconfirmed  alerts are unreliable.... ie . They cannot be relied on... Perhaps Sunny or Slarti could explain in what way the alert s are reliable ...I don't expect them to be able to respond

We have been told that the dogs are high 90%s accurate, that means their alerts. Obviously an alert can’t point to a victim or perpetrator without forensic confirmation, hence they cannot be relied upon in trial. It is still the most likely scenario however that cadaver odour was alerted to in 5a. Where that odour originated is unknown.

[Mr Gray]

We have been told that the dogs are high 90%s accurate, that means their alerts. Obviously an alert can’t point to a victim or perpetrator without forensic confirmation, hence they cannot be relied upon in trial. It is still the most likely scenario however that cadaver odour was alerted to in 5a. Where that odour originated is unknown.

90% accurate in what way....you have failed miserably to answer that question...cadaver odour is not th most likely scenario imo...you are stating your opinion as fact which is against forum rules

[Sunny]

Robittybob1 and Vertigo Swirl

Unreliable

un·re·li·a·ble  (ŭn′rĭ-lī′ə-bəl)
adj.
Marked by or exhibiting a lack of reliability.

unreliable (ˌʌnrɪˈlaɪəbəl)
adj
not reliable; untrustworthy: an unreliable witness.

I don't believe that the above is what Martin Grime (they were talking about not relying on the alerts as evidence not them in themselves being unreliable) nor this


Both Harrison and Grime say unconfirmed  alerts have no reliability as evidence or.. In Harrison's case... Evidence or intelligence... No reliability means unreliable


Do you not see the glaring difference?

[Mr Gray]

We have been told that the dogs are high 90%s accurate, that means their alerts. Obviously an alert can’t point to a victim or perpetrator without forensic confirmation, hence they cannot be relied upon in trial. It is still the most likely scenario however that cadaver odour was alerted to in 5a. Where that odour originated is unknown.

lets assume the test involved 10 freshly contaminated carpet tiles..oozing with cadaverine contaminant fro a stinking cadaver...then I would expect a high scrore...but you cannot simply extrapolate those figures to  pdl...it is a ridiculous...or to use angelos words...stupid...suggestion ..

Or perhaps the test was not remnant scent at all...but rotting pork......when you can tell me how the test was conducted we can evaluate the 90%...until then the figure has no value

[Mr Gray]

Robittybob1 and Vertigo Swirl

Unreliable

un·re·li·a·ble  (ŭn′rĭ-lī′ə-bəl)
adj.
Marked by or exhibiting a lack of reliability.

unreliable (ˌʌnrɪˈlaɪəbəl)
adj
not reliable; untrustworthy: an unreliable witness.

I don't believe that the above is what Martin Grime (they were talking about not relying on the alerts as evidence not them in themselves being unreliable) nor this


Both Harrison and Grime say unconfirmed  alerts have no reliability as evidence or.. In Harrison's case... Evidence or intelligence... No reliability means unreliable


Do you not see the glaring difference?

they are unreliable.....if they are not...then they must be reliable...tell me how they are reliable

[Sunny]

they are unreliable.....if they are not...then they must be reliable...tell me how they are reliable

Slartibartfast has already mentioned my earlier cite where Grime's later dogs achieved high 90's in percentage terms in their tests on alerts. I would call that very reliable imo.

You are using a legal term to call the dog alerts unreliable IMO.