Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[Mr Gray]

That is a fairly accurate summary of the dogs. The problem arises when some supporters say that the alerts are unimportant and some sceptics say it is proof of Madeleine’s death. The alerts add to the sum of all knowledge it is just not sure how yet.

in what way do they add to the sum of knowledge...by your own admission they dont...you think they do but you dont know how...the alerts tell us nothing...so my premise that they are unimportant is perfectly valid

[Venturi Swirl]

A good question is 'Does washing eliminate cadaver scent from clothing'? A bad question is 'What are the odds that a cadaver dog will alert to clothing which has been washed?'

The first is an honest question asking for information. The second is designed to suggest that washing clothes does indeed get rid of cadaver scent.

IYO. 

[Mr Gray]

Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.


Grime was asked a simple question....to which the answer was ...no....
why did he not answer the question

[Robittybob1]

Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.


Grime was asked a simple question....to which the answer was ...no....
why did he not answer the question

He can't say "yes" as he has "no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy".

[Mr Gray]

He can't say "yes" as he has "no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy".

The question is simple...the answer is no

Was CC retained by the police

[Miss Taken Identity]

That is a fairly accurate summary of the dogs. The problem arises when some supporters say that the alerts are unimportant and some sceptics say it is proof of Madeleine’s death. The alerts add to the sum of all knowledge it is just not sure how yet.

Exactly!  so why dismiss the dogs when it wasn't established who's cadaver was picked up! Jumping right in there prematurely I think.

[Mr Gray]

Exactly!  so why dismiss the dogs when it wasn't established who's cadaver was picked up! Jumping right in there prematurely I think.

It hasn't been established  a cadaver was picked up

[Robittybob1]

The question is simple...the answer is no

Was CC retained by the police

Retained - yes I believe so, but for how long?  When Kate and Gerry went to Huelva in Spain did Kate have Cuddle Cat with her?
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id168.htm

[Robittybob1]

Misty - did you note this that the tiles removed were found to be underneath the sofa
"When looking at the images referred to above it was observed that the floor tiles to be recovered were situated in an area of the living room next to a window where there was a sofa and that the tiles referred to were underneath that sofa." 12 Volume XII pages 3195 to 3206.

So that might explain why Eddie sniffs the end of the sofa and then within a moment alerts behind the sofa.

[Brietta]

I see what Misty is saying but as I am not a expert with cadaver dogs I don't think I can say much. Grime had worked with Eddie for years, he would know what Eddie was alerting to. Was Misty referring to Eddie's nose before he went around the back of the sofa or whilst he was behind it? If it was before he went around the back it may simply be that the scent was pooling behind the sofa and was therefore stronger at the bottom of the sofa where there would be a gap between this and the floor. Therefore Eddie's nose would point to the bottom of the sofa.  I have seen the video but I haven't yet managed to see what Misty means.

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence."        Martin Grime


Martin Grime has been consistent throughout.

He assesses his dog's performance and reports back and as far as everything else is concerned the investigation is out of his hands and is transferred to those responsible for collecting evidence from the places indicated by the dog and testing it.

I think the fact is that testing produced positive conclusions which had nothing to do with Madeleine however it is dressed up.

[slartibartfast]

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence."        Martin Grime


Martin Grime has been consistent throughout.

He assesses his dog's performance and reports back and as far as everything else is concerned the investigation is out of his hands and is transferred to those responsible for collecting evidence from the places indicated by the dog and testing it.

I think the fact is that testing produced positive conclusions which had nothing to do with Madeleine however it is dressed up.

What leads you to that conclusion?

[Miss Taken Identity]

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence."        Martin Grime


Martin Grime has been consistent throughout.

He assesses his dog's performance and reports back and as far as everything else is concerned the investigation is out of his hands and is transferred to those responsible for collecting evidence from the places indicated by the dog and testing it.

I think the fact is that testing produced positive conclusions which had nothing to do with Madeleine however it is dressed up.

Italics... this doesn't make sense to me? are you saying people are claiming it is absolutely MBM's cadaver scent- in spite of what Grime says? Or are you dismissing a fact that the cadaver scent and MBM's disappearance should not be looked upon as being circumstantial evidence along with other circumstantial evidence?

[Brietta]

What leads you to that conclusion?

Was there a positive forensic test for blood underneath the floor tiles?
Was there a positive forensic test to the key fob?

[Robittybob1]

Italics... this doesn't make sense to me? are you saying people are claiming it is absolutely MBM's cadaver scent- in spite of what Grime says? Or are you dismissing a fact that the cadaver scent and MBM's disappearance should not be looked upon as being circumstantial evidence along with other circumstantial evidence?

If you start treating the alerts as circumstantial evidence you are assigning "a motive or suspect" yet Grime clearly states "this does not however suggest a motive or suspect ..."

[Brietta]

Italics... this doesn't make sense to me? are you saying people are claiming it is absolutely MBM's cadaver scent- in spite of what Grime says? Or are you dismissing a fact that the cadaver scent and MBM's disappearance should not be looked upon as being circumstantial evidence along with other circumstantial evidence?

I am quoting what Martin Grime says regarding the dog alerts and the official position regarding them.  If you accept his professionalism you really have to accept his knowledge of the law as regards it.