Is this another example of a potentially crucial error by the VRD handler?

[faithlilly]

I find this attitude that Grime is an expert and therefore cannot be questioned or criticised extremely naieve

Yet you believe him unquestionably when he says the dog alerts have no evidentiary value.

[Robittybob1]

I find this attitude that Grime is an expert and therefore cannot be questioned or criticised extremely naieve

That was your best post IMO.

[misty]

I couldn't agree more. Some have become so beguiled by the dog videos that they have turned to examining them in minute detail. Despite their lack of knowledge of how these dogs work, they have formed opinions which they think suggest that Grime was incompetent.

I wonder why they have bothered when he told them himself that the alerts weren't evidence.

How do you assess the competence of the police who, without waiting for forensic results, viewed the video & assessed from it that the alerts meant Madeleine had died in the apartment? Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?

[Robittybob1]

How do you assess the competence of the police who, without waiting for forensic results, viewed the video & assessed from it that the alerts meant Madeleine had died in the apartment? Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?

Misty  did you see my post about the tiles with the blood being found underneath the sofa, so it appears Grime was wrong and only after studying the video and bringing Keela back in did they get the location sorted.  That is how I understood it all.

[Mr Gray]

How do you assess the competence of the police who, without waiting for forensic results, viewed the video & assessed from it that the alerts meant Matdeleine had died in the apartment? Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?

It's even worse than that.... Amaral is on record saying 15 markers might not be God enough for the FSS but it was good enough for him... So amaral thinks he knows better than the experts

[faithlilly]

How do you assess the competence of the police who, without waiting for forensic results, viewed the video & assessed from it that the alerts meant Madeleine had died in the apartment? Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?

It is interesting that you spend half your time deriding Grimes skill as a dog handler and the other half promoting his opinion.

[Venturi Swirl]

I find this attitude that Grime is an expert and therefore cannot be questioned or criticised extremely naieve

Especially when we are told this by someone who prides themselves in accepting nothing, believing no one and confirming everything.

[Mr Gray]

It is interesting that you spend half your time deriding Grimes skill as a dog handler and the other half promoting his opinion.

That isn't Grimes opinion.... It's a well known fact... Amongst dog handlers

[ShiningInLuz]

How do you assess the competence of the police who, without waiting for forensic results, viewed the video & assessed from it that the alerts meant Madeleine had died in the apartment? Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?

This is incorrect IMO, so perhaps you need to distinguish your facts from that which is merely your opinion.

"Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?"  If you can show that the PJ had Grime's or Harrison's evaluation of the dog results by the date of Kate or Gerry's arguido interviews, now would be a good time to produce it.

It would save us all hours of digging.  TY.

[misty]

Misty  did you see my post about the tiles with the blood being found underneath the sofa, so it appears Grime was wrong and only after studying the video and bringing Keela back in did they get the location sorted.  That is how I understood it all.

Yes, I saw it Rob. The forensics don't refer to blood, just cellular material so did they validate Keela's alerts?

[Venturi Swirl]

This is incorrect IMO, so perhaps you need to distinguish your facts from that which is merely your opinion.

"Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?"  If you can show that the PJ had Grime's or Harrison's evaluation of the dog results by the date of Kate or Gerry's arguido interviews, now would be a good time to produce it.

It would save us all hours of digging.  TY.

What possible reason could there be to delay the results of Grime’s evaluation of the sniffer dog results for so many weeks?  Also weren’t the McCanns asked to explain the dog alerts in their arguido interviews?

[Mr Gray]

This is incorrect IMO, so perhaps you need to distinguish your facts from that which is merely your opinion.

"Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?"  If you can show that the PJ had Grime's or Harrison's evaluation of the dog results by the date of Kate or Gerry's arguido interviews, now would be a good time to produce it.

It would save us all hours of digging.  TY.

It's in Harrison's rog... And alaral himself has told us he would not accept the FSS report on the 15 markers

[misty]

This is incorrect IMO, so perhaps you need to distinguish your facts from that which is merely your opinion.

"Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?"  If you can show that the PJ had Grime's or Harrison's evaluation of the dog results by the date of Kate or Gerry's arguido interviews, now would be a good time to produce it.

It would save us all hours of digging.  TY.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

9 Processos Vol IX Page 2461
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2461
 Policia Judiciaria

NUIPC 201/07. GALGS

Terms of Joining

On this date I join to the case files the translations of the verbal reports made in English by the police sniffer dog trainer Martin Grime, referring to the sniffer dog inspections carried out with the cadaver odour detection dog Eddie and the human blood detection dog, Keela.

These translations were made working from the audio-visual recordings of each of the inspections.

These terms of joining were elaborated and will be signed.

Portimao 23 August 2007

Inspector Paiva

[Brietta]

This is incorrect IMO, so perhaps you need to distinguish your facts from that which is merely your opinion.

"Why did they ignore the opinion & advice of the handler if he was considered competent?"  If you can show that the PJ had Grime's or Harrison's evaluation of the dog results by the date of Kate or Gerry's arguido interviews, now would be a good time to produce it.

It would save us all hours of digging.  TY.

After the conclusion of the searches, a meeting in the Portimao offices of the PJ took place in the cabinet of Goncalo AMARAL and those present included Guilermino ENCARNACO, an official representative from the Leicestershire police, Martin GRIME and myself. During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON-RIGATORY.htm

[Robittybob1]

Yes, I saw it Rob. The forensics don't refer to blood, just cellular material so did they validate Keela's alerts?

Keela smells the blood, she isn't seeing the blood cells, whereas the detectives want to see blood, and the lab technicians can only presume there were cells (for the DNA is inside cells, but they don't get to see cells either).

Keela's ability to detect blood took everyone into a zone where words haven't been invented to describe it properly.
Like the "past presence of a blood microdot" or "the residual presence of a blood microdot". would that be it?  Hardly a murder zone.