Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 592015 times)

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Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #225 on: December 10, 2013, 10:00:25 PM »
It is interesting to see it, but this place was searched very thoroughly.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #226 on: December 11, 2013, 12:23:03 AM »
Yes I'm wondering how far they descended down the cliff slope for safety reasons and how well the cliff face was searched. There's definitely a connection with Rocha Negra and that monument they ran to on the top of the hill next to the cliffs IMO. If she was moved there and hidden it was from 5.30 to 6.30am 4 May.

"I also felt a compulsion to run up to the top of the Rocha Negra. I was crying out that I could see Madeleine lying, cold and mottled, on a big grey stone slab." (5 May)

"A lady from an apartment across Rua Dr Gentil Martins, overlooking our little side gate, came over to speak to us. She said that the previous night she had seen a car going up the Rocha Negra – the black, volcanic cliff that dominates the village. There was a track leading to the Rocha Negra but nobody remembered ever having noticed any vehicle that far up in the daytime, let alone at night. This immediately conjured visions of Madeleine being disposed of somewhere on the overhanging cliff. I went to tell one of the police officers who was able to speak a little English. He was quite dismissive. It would have been one of the GNR men checking the area, he said."

"sliding down the slippery slope"



« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 12:46:04 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #227 on: December 11, 2013, 04:04:11 AM »
Surely it would be no place to dispose of her . (This has been discussed before on another thread). The currents in that particular place would not have carried a body away.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 04:11:57 AM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #228 on: December 11, 2013, 12:04:12 PM »
I don't think she was disposed of into the sea. She was hidden somewhere on the cliff face. Look at the size of the people on the beach for comparison.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #229 on: December 11, 2013, 02:10:49 PM »
I don't think she was disposed of into the sea. She was hidden somewhere on the cliff face. Look at the size of the people on the beach for comparison.
Sometimes I wonder what idea people have of corpses, hidden in natural environment like caves or in artificial environment like freezers. In either case the removing perspective isn't bearable.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #230 on: December 11, 2013, 02:25:13 PM »
Sometimes I wonder what idea people have of corpses, hidden in natural environment like caves or in artificial environment like freezers. In either case the removing perspective isn't bearable.

 In either case the removing perspective isn't bearable.

Made me think of Nielsen sharing his flat with them. Time to think about something else.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #231 on: December 11, 2013, 02:46:44 PM »
Sometimes I wonder what idea people have of corpses, hidden in natural environment like caves or in artificial environment like freezers. In either case the removing perspective isn't bearable.

August 02, 2011|Karen Kiley/David Seidel

WYTHEVILLE, Va. — The grandmother of a Wythe County infant admitted she stashed the dead child's body in a cave earlier this year.  The admission came during a preliminary hearing Tuesday for Ashley Meadows and her mother, Twila.

The body of an infant wrapped in a blanket was found inside a cave near Wytheville last January. Twila Meadows and two sheriff's office investigators testified during Tuesday's hearing.  The investigators testified that a medical examiner determined that the child was born alive.  That conflicted with Ashley Meadows previous statements that the child was stillborn.  She was going to name the baby girl Jordan.

Twila Meadows testified that Ashley gave birth in the bathroom of their home.  Twila said she found the body in a trash can and first hid it in a shed outside the house.  About a day later she wrapped the body in a blanket and moved it to a cave along Route 11.  She said she disposed of Ashley's bloody clothes and afterbirth at a state park campground.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #232 on: December 11, 2013, 03:02:13 PM »
Twila said she found the body in a trash can and first hid it in a shed outside the house.  About a day later she wrapped the body in a blanket and moved it to a cave along Route 11.  She said she disposed of Ashley's bloody clothes and afterbirth at a state park campground.
A newborn, no muscles, no rigor mortis.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #233 on: December 11, 2013, 03:23:24 PM »
Yes it's a tricky one but I'm no doctor  >@@(*&)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #234 on: December 12, 2013, 12:48:13 PM »
What date were the cliffs searched?

As we know on Tuesday 8th May they had the keys to the church.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #235 on: December 12, 2013, 01:32:38 PM »
CONFIDENTIAL
STATEMENT
Number : S18
Surname : MCCLUSKEY
Forename(s) : SUSAN

At approximately 10 to 2 in the morning of Saturday 5th May 2007, I was on holiday in the town of ALVOR, PORTUGAL, with my husband Richard. We were walking up the bank from the town returning to our hotel complex known as, CLUBE ALVORFERIAS, after a night out. We were the only people on the street. We were on the main road which was dark but lit by street lighting.

As we approached the hotel Raymond(sic) - (Richard surely ??) - drew my attention to a vehicle which had stopped on the junction across the road. It was parked in the middle of the junction and initially I had thought it had broken down because of the way it was stopped. I did not have any glasses on but I was able to distinguish a male with a child get up and stagger up the hill. I can say the vehicle was about 20-30f when it stopped (PAGE ONE) but we had a clear and unobstructed view of the junction. There was no traffic and the junction was well lit with street lighting. Raymond(sic) then decided to go across and check out the vehicle. We both went over and wrote the vehicle registration of the white 'pick-up' vehicle down on my hand. We had been at the vehicle only a very short time, possibly a couple of minutes when a woman and a couple in a dark vehicle appeared from the road in front of the van almost simultaneously. I could describe the woman as 5 ft 5 inches - 5ft 6 inches blonde ponytail with a very worried / white face. I only noticed she was casually dressed. I could see that the male who got out of the car was on his mobile phone. We got into conversation as he could speak English and I asked him whether he was looking for a man with a child to which he said yes. He said he had seen the man hit the girl who was her(sic) (possibly should be 'him') and had turned around to see if he could catch him which was how he had ended up here. I also asked him if he knew about the missing child to which he said yes. I said can we leave it with you and he said 'yes'. He was still on the (page 2) phone at this time.

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child’s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child’s weight.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deposition: Richard McCluskey
 Age 61
 Retired

 Statement Date 09th May 2007

 On Saturday 05 May 2007 at approximately 01.50hrs I was with my wife Susan in the holiday resort of ALVOR, PORTUGAL. We were walking up the bank from the town of Alvor in order to return to our hotel, known as the Clube Alvorferias, after a night out. As we approached the junction I observed a white ford transit vehicle drive up the bank and stop well away from the kerb in the junction turning right, blocking traffic turning right. I would describe the vehicle as a flatbed 'transit' van with a white cab area with white metal fold down side flaps/boards. I recognise the type of vehicle as I used to drive one. I did not notice whether it had any identifying marks of advertising on it.

 As it had caught our attention I stopped and watched. I then observed a dark skinned male, well built, dark hair (page 1) get out of the vehicle and begin to stagger up the bank in a drunken manner. I could not see much detail because it was dark but I could see that he had cradled a child of about 3-4 years over his left shoulder. Again I could not give anything else due to the darkness but it was clear that the child was not making any noise, or crying, or appear in distress. There was no movement at all.

 I was aware that a child was missing in the area and therefore went and took the registration of the vehicle, which my wife wrote initially on her hand and later on a piece of paper.

 I watched him stagger approx 200m up the bank and then turn right on a road into a complex area. It was at this point that the situation appeared very strange and so we decided to take the vehicle number.

 As we were taking the number a woman appeared half running towards the van from the road on which the van was parked. She was clearly in distress and upon seeing us began to talk in Portuguese. We could not understand her and at this point we were the only other people on the street; but as we were talking a young Portuguese couple appeared from (page 2) the same direction as the woman in a small red vehicle and stopped. The male came over and was able to speak good English he translated what the woman was saying. In the conversation it became apparent that the couple had observed the male with the child in a situation further up the road and had seen the man hit the woman and had driven around the block and found the woman with us. He said he had phoned the police. Thinking everything was alright we left the couple, woman and van in situ and entered our apartment.

 Upon entering the apartment we put on Sky news and became aware of a news report about a young couple acting suspiciously in relation to the disappearance of the British child. I therefore went to thhe complex and informed them of what I had seen and gave him the registration on a piece of paper. We then returned to the area and saw the woman and the vehicle still in place. I returned to the apartment and after an hour hadn’t heard anything so I contacted the police. Eventually I got through to an English speaker and explained what had happened. The police stated they were sending someone to reception. I decided to go down and wait for them. As I got downstairs I could see two police in a patrol vehicle outside reception. The officers spoke English and I explained the situation and gave them another copy of the registration which we had written down. They told me they were dealing or had dealt with the situation. Then at about 03.15 we checked the area again and the van and woman had gone.

 I can confirm that the registration was 3893 VL for the transit vehicle. I have also produced a hand-drawn map of the local area which I now produce as RMC/1.

 Signed
 R. McCluskey

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We went to Manchester and stayed at a friends house before catching the first flight of the morning, on Saturday 5th May 2007.

 We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz. (Patricia Cameron)



"A lady from an apartment across Rua Dr Gentil Martins, overlooking our little side gate, came over to speak to us. She said that the previous night she had seen a car going up the Rocha Negra – the black, volcanic cliff that dominates the village. There was a track leading to the Rocha Negra but nobody remembered ever having noticed any vehicle that far up in the daytime, let alone at night. This immediately conjured visions of Madeleine being disposed of somewhere on the overhanging cliff. I went to tell one of the police officers who was able to speak a little English. He was quite dismissive. It would have been one of the GNR men checking the area, he said."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1:59 pings wouldn't be possible for 10 to 2.  PDL to Alvor is about 20 miles so 30 mins drive. Any other connections with Alvor in this case? Anyone live there or own premises from statements etc?

Just added Richard's statement which seems to indicate that the woman spoke Portuguese so that couldn't be Kate.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 02:30:21 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #236 on: December 12, 2013, 01:38:05 PM »

"A lady from an apartment across Rua Dr Gentil Martins, overlooking our little side gate, came over to speak to us. She said that the previous night she had seen a car going up the Rocha Negra – the black, volcanic cliff that dominates the village. There was a track leading to the Rocha Negra but nobody remembered ever having noticed any vehicle that far up in the daytime, let alone at night. This immediately conjured visions of Madeleine being disposed of somewhere on the overhanging cliff. I went to tell one of the police officers who was able to speak a little English. He was quite dismissive. It would have been one of the GNR men checking the area, he said."


Was that ever thoroughly checked out?

Offline Anna

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #237 on: December 12, 2013, 08:17:23 PM »
I found 2 statements which I still cant work out.
 They are the statements of 2 workers at the club, girl and boyfriend who were driving near 5a when going home after he had completed a call out job, but saw nothing.
However the chap omitted to add that he had picked up a maintenance vehicle at 9pm.could there be anything in this or is it just me ? Probably just me the police would surely have checked out her statement. They would have no reason to lie. She had worked there since 2004.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post165.html#p165
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post178.html#p178
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 09:24:52 PM by anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #238 on: December 13, 2013, 08:38:55 PM »
3 MAY

Was Kate with you?”
 
Reply
 
“No, no, Kate didn’t come.  They, they tended to use the kids club in the afternoon, for the twins as well as Madeleine, and they were the only ones really doing that, as I say, Ella sometimes went in in the afternoon, but the younger ones, you know, none of us put them in in the afternoon.  So, again, that’s generally why we didn’t see them because they had things booked to do in the afternoon without the kids and we didn’t.  So, you know, we had asked them but, you know, they had tennis lessons or something. (FP)


 The lesson ended an hour later, at around 4:30 p.m. Gerry continued playing tennis with a guest called JULIAN who belonged to his tennis group, while she went for a jog along the beach, for around half an hour. During that period she saw the rest of the group, children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told her that they were going to the beach and Madeleine surely would have loved to have gone with them. (KM)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #239 on: December 16, 2013, 01:58:49 PM »
Sunday 27 May 2007

Kate and Gerry take ownership of a Renault Scenic hire car. (Dr. Enawgaw Mengistae from Wittenberg rented it before the McCanns  23-26 May - stayed at the Atlantico Vila hotel in Praia da Rocha, Portimao)

"Strange day after all the activity during the week. Kate and I started off with an early morning run to the  the top of the nearby cliffs. Sean and  Amelie went to the beach this afternoon with mummy, auntie Trisha and Anne but daddy stayed in the apartment catching up on campaign e-mails, making calls and liaising with Clarence our press officer." GM Blog

"Clarence spoke to us about a possible trip to the Vatican. It seems that it really is going to happen' main story on the news! 
Spoke to Dad. I went for a walk to the beach with Sean and Amelie. Frozen. Beach' slippery, wet feet.
We all had dinner when we got back to the apartment.
We have to keep looking. We have to find you beloved xxxxx.   
(Kate signed off the day's entry by drawing a heart with 'I LOVE MADELEINE' inside.)



13 hour gap re GM. 2:41 am re KM?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 03:26:38 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.