Strange Witness Statements

[AnneGuedes]

True....just more headache stuff isnt it.....there is somethng rotten in this case thats for sure....

Oh and lets not forget those statements of kates mates contradict what she said in tv...that if maddie had not been abducted maddies comment that morning wouldnt have passed her mind agan...but it did...as she told those friends at dinner.....BEFORE she foundmaddie missing...how to explain that?.any "pros" want a stab?

Mrs McCann wants the butter and the money for it. Haven't you noticed how she says "by the way it wasn't just me Madeleine was speaking to" ? Kind of schoolyard comment.
So she needs a reason to state that she left the sliding door-window open (the crying episode), as if she had never done that (perhaps..) but altogether she doesn't like to be considered irresponsible after Madeleine told she knew she was left alone. Hence her attempts to suggest it was a passing remark.

[Redblossom]

Mrs McCann wants the butter and the money for it. Haven't you noticed how she says "by the way it wasn't just me Madeleine was speaking to" ? Kind of schoolyard comment.
So she needs a reason to state that she left the sliding door-window open (the crying episode), as if she had never done that (perhaps..) but altogether she doesn't like to be considered irresponsible after Madeleine told she knew she was left alone. Hence her attempts to suggest it was a passing remark.

Mrs ks statements comments and behaviours...sorry...bizarre and unbelievable plus a proven embellisher of truths.......a  very deceitful woman at the very least IMO shudder

[pathfinder73]

Any of those interviews gives you a sore head. The LC put it on the account of emotion. I don't think a Lee Rainbow would have.

Gerry McCann was made a suspect in his daughter Madeleine's disappearance after a British expert said he should be investigated for 'homicide', a Portuguese court heard yesterday.

Criminal profiler Lee Rainbow recommended that police on the Algarve investigate the doctor and his wife Kate because of 'contradictions' in his statement.

The report by Mr Rainbow, of the National Policing Improvement Agency, was sent to Portugal in June 2007, a month after the three-year-old disappeared.

It was dramatically produced yesterday by lawyers for a disgraced Portuguese detective whose campaign of vilification the McCanns are trying to stop.

The couple want Gonzolo Amaral to be legally barred from accusing them of being involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

The detective was sacked from the investigation after he made an outspoken attack on English police, accusing them of failing to investigate the McCanns. He has since retired from the police force.

His lawyer Antonio Cabrita, reading from a Portuguese translation of the previously- confidential report, said: 'The family is a lead that should be followed.

'The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statement might lead us to suspect a homicide. This is a lead that should be investigated.'

The lawyer added: 'Portuguese police had only considered the abduction theory. It was British police who said they must consider homicide as well.'

Mr Cabrita did not outline what ' contradictions' had been found in Mr McCann's statements and refused to give any further details after the Lisbon hearing.

Mr Rainbow, 37, leads a team of five criminal profilers at the NPIA, and specialises in sex crimes and murders.

The Home Office agency, which describes itself as 'part of the police service', aims to improve police use of information, evidence and science and to support operations.

It is understood to have provided Portuguese police with a 'checklist' of how to proceed.

A spokesman said last night: 'In disappearance cases it is common for the NPIA to advise officers to consider the possibility of the involvement of family and close friends.

'This is good practice for investigating cases. The NPIA gave similar generic advice to Portuguese police.'

Mr Rainbow, who has worked on major investigations including the Ipswich prostitute murders and the disappearance of Shannon Matthews, did not say there was any evidence the McCanns were involved.

But his confidential report appears to have been a turning point in the Portuguese investigation.

Madeleine's distraught parents were named as official suspects a few weeks later, despite Portuguese police failing to find any evidence against them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250084/How-letter-UK-police-turned-spotlight-Kate-Gerry-McCann.html

[sadie]

I've read something about that but can't find it. What time was that at? Didn't Kate not let her in to the apartment?

Where have you got that from Pathfinder?  I have read all the statements and cannot recall ever seeing that.

Not another myth being formed, is it?  Myths are dangerous things and become propagands if not controlled.

[sadie]

Mrs McCann wants the butter and the money for it. Haven't you noticed how she says "by the way it wasn't just me Madeleine was speaking to" ? Kind of schoolyard comment.
So she needs a reason to state that she left the sliding door-window open (the crying episode), as if she had never done that (perhaps..) but altogether she doesn't like to be considered irresponsible after Madeleine told she knew she was left alone. Hence her attempts to suggest it was a passing remark.

Kate was very direct and honest.  She told the PJ about the crying episode.  She didn't have to come out with it, but she did.

Why do you have the need to constantly deride her?

Pick, pick, pick, pick
..... I wonder how you would feel if a certain bunch of people were constantly being judgemental about your every tiny move and every little comment ... and were picking YOU apart all the time?

Even to the extent with some of you that you make things up to make things jucier.  Several of you have done it and it aint on.

Pick pick pick pick .... Jeez !

[slartibartfast]

  Myths are dangerous things and become propagands if not controlled.

...and some Myths are controlled to become propaganda.

[sadie]

...and some Myths are controlled to become propaganda.

How right you are.  Myths are dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.

[AnneGuedes]

What is mysterious is why the gaspar statements were sent six months later but AT the request of the PJ? Who told the PJ these statements existed and so they asked for them? Six months later? The memo stated enclosed are the statements you requested or some such words.....

The PJ knew the answered questionnaires of the Paynes when Ricardo Paiva received the attempted analysis of the LS PO. They likely learnt that the Gaspar statements existed through those questionnaires.

[pathfinder73]

Surname: CARPENTER
 First name. STEPHEN

At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children.

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance".
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All the group were there at 8.30? 9pm when they all arrived. Times are all over the place as usual.

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Jez Wilkins

On Wednesday 2nd May
That evening myself and my partner attended the 'TAPAS' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7.30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes JERRY appeared as did one of his friends. I believe this was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We found out that the group of families were using occupying ground floor flats near the swimming pool as they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evening. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.

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2 May Kate putting the children to bed at 8pm? 

3 May "It was around 7:15 p.m. when they put the children to bed and checked they were sleeping, she is sure of this." (KM 6 May)

[Benice]

Surname: CARPENTER
 First name. STEPHEN

At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children.

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance".
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All the group were there at 8.30? 9pm when they all arrived. Times are all over the place as usual.

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Jez Wilkins

On Wednesday 2nd May
That evening myself and my partner attended the 'TAPAS' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7.30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes JERRY appeared as did one of his friends. I believe this was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We found out that the group of families were using occupying ground floor flats near the swimming pool as they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evening. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.

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2 May Kate putting the children to bed at 8pm? 

3 May "It was around 7:15 p.m. when they put the children to bed and checked they were sleeping, she is sure of this." (KM 6 May)

This is nitpicking IMO.   Gerry makes a general statement to explain where Kate is  - but because he doesn't account for every minute of what Kate was doing back at the apartment - it is automatically assumed to be proof of 'something' sinister.    What that 'something' is I don't know.

'Putting the children to bed' could also include - having a shower afterwards, washing up, tidying up - all manner of stuff before she finally left the apartment.    Does anyone really think it's odd that GM does not go into every minute detail of why Kate wasn't with him yet (which he probably didn't know anyway as he wasn't there) - but just explained her absence with one general remark.    I certainly don't.

So what if the children went to bed later on the 2nd than they did on the 3rd?  Why is that 'suspicious'.

[sadie]

This is nitpicking IMO.   Gerry makes a general statement to explain where Kate is  - but because he doesn't account for every minute of what Kate was doing back at the apartment - it is automatically assumed to be proof of 'something' sinister.    What that 'something' is I don't know.

'Putting the children to bed' could also include - having a shower afterwards, washing up, tidying up - all manner of stuff before she finally left the apartment.    Does anyone really think it's odd that GM does not go into every minute detail of why Kate wasn't with him yet (which he probably didn't know anyway as he wasn't there) - but just explained her absence with one general remark.    I certainly don't.

So what if the children went to bed later on the 2nd than they did on the 3rd?  Why is that 'suspicious'.

Imo,, not at all. 

It fits in with the statement of one of the Mccanns (maybe both, I cant remember) that Madeleine had been so tired that afternoon that they had had to carry her home from the tapas at about 5.30 pm.  Also that the children were too tired to go for their usual play on the slide in their jimjams and with the other children. 

So that night, they missed what must have been the highlight of their day ... playing on the climbing frame and slide etc. with their friends.  They really were so tired (or drugged at teatime?)


But even if that hadn't been the case, pathfunder, tbh, you are nit picking..  There will be differences.  Most British people are not absolutely precise with their daily routine ... and neither are their memories absolutely perfect, to the nearest five minutes 

However if Kate said a certain time definitely, then most probably she had some particular reason to look at her watch.  That time is likely to be pretty accurate .... but still not to the exact minute.

Nothing suspicious that i can see about the statements here


These weren't time trials, ya know .

[sadie]

What is suspicious is the unusual  tiredness of the children that afternoon / evening. 

Especially Madeleines extra-ordinary weariness.

There really should be a thread on that, imo

[pathfinder73]

Sadie, The discrepancy is the daily route changed on the day that she disappeared. You don't think that is not important? IMO Kate was in a bad mood that day (reason for sleeping in spare bed, the reason for the routine change, they never even went to the beach with the others, Madeleine wanted to go out and play as always) and she was planning to have it out with her husband when he returned from tennis at 7pm.

Benice, Gerry with Russ talked to Jez at 8.15pm and Gerry said Kate was putting the kids to bed. So I presume that means 8pm bedtime. Twins probably earlier 7.30 but Madeleine at 8pm.

[sadie]

Sadie, The discrepancy is the daily route changed on the day that she disappeared. You don't think that is not important? IMO Kate was in a bad mood that day (reason for sleeping in spare bed, the reason for the routine change, they never even went to the beach with the others, Madeleine wanted to go out and play as always) and she was planning to have it out with her husband when he returned from tennis at 7pm.

All supposition Pathfinder .... and very biased

As far as i am aware, before coming away, the Mccanns hardly knew quite a few of the peeps they holidayed with.  And I am not at all sure that they followed the same routine as the others, day in and day out.  Where did you get that from ?

As for Kate wanting to have it out with Gerry !  Jeez, you do have a vivid imagination


Editted:
Deleted. 
Sorry Pathfinder.  My mistake.

[jassi]

All supposition Pathfinder .... and very biased

As far as i am aware, before coming away, the Mccanns hardly knew quite a few of the peeps they holidayed with.  And I am not at all sure that they followed the same routine as the others, day in and day out.  Where did you get that from ?

As for Kate wanting to have it out with Gerry !  Jeez, you do have a vivid imagination


You are wrong pathfinder, by an hour !

Gerry talked with Jez at about 9.15 NOT 8.15

The children were in bed long before 8.30 when the Mccanns went to the Tapas restaurant.  I am not wading tru the statements, but you are way out .... try and get your facts right .... cos wrong facts cause Myths and disinformation



And I feel sure that you wouldn't want to ne the source of any new propaganda, would you?

Not sure about that. Gerry worked with all the other men and Kate & Fiona were best friends. The only one not really known was Fiona's mother