Strange Witness Statements

[ShiningInLuz]

On 1st May, Kate had 4 telephone activations between 8.31pm and 8.37pm.

Then a gap, which I assume is dinner.

Then 6 more activations between 10.16pm and 10.27pm.

This does not fit the 'parents out late and Maddie crying' pattern.

Try 2nd May, when the parents WERE out late (book/statements).

[pathfinder73]

On 1st May, Kate had 4 telephone activations between 8.31pm and 8.37pm.

Then a gap, which I assume is dinner.

Then 6 more activations between 10.16pm and 10.27pm.

This does not fit the 'parents out late and Maddie crying' pattern.

Try 2nd May, when the parents WERE out late (book/statements).

Rachael heard no crying next door on WED 2 May and she stayed in.

I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they'd been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they'd said they'd been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I'd heard anything but'.

1578 'On the Wednesday evening'.

 Reply 'Mmm'.

1578 'Who said they'd been crying sorry''

 Reply 'Kate did, when we sat down at the table on the Thursday night, Kate said that erm, Madeleine and Sean had cried, said they'd been crying, erm and you know wondered where she was, or wondered where you know, Mummy and Daddy were, erm I mean this was kind of after Madeleine disappeared, we talked, she mentioned that when we sat at the table on Thursday and then after Madeleine had disappeared, erm McCANNS said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they'd seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didnt hear any, well you know, I didnt hear anything.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

One cot was in the bedroom on Wed 2 May according to the cleaner. If that is correct then it connects to Tuesday night.

"With respect to her activities performed directly in the apartment, she declares that the last time she entered the apartment was on the Wednesday prior to the events, specifically on the 2nd of May, when she cleaned the apartment.

While performing her work, she remembers having noticed that the couple was sleeping in the room located opposite the entrance, where she confirmed the presence of a child's bed (crib). The room gives onto an outdoor garden by means of a terrace, as it is on the ground floor,. In the room next to the entrance to the apartment there was a bed placed next to the wall (where she supposed the missing child slept), and also the second child's bed (crib). All these beds were untidy at the time, meaning that they had been used."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_CLEANER.htm

From reading her previous statement, mainly lines 34-40 it can be understood that on the Wednesday night she slept in the couple's bedroom, but that did not happen since she slept in Madeleine's room.

When asked if Madeleine slept in their room, she says yes, as mentioned, on the Tuesday night.

When she had 20 stars she got a present and if she woke up at night and did not stay in her bed, she did not get a star.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

[pegasus]

On 1st May, Kate had 4 telephone activations between 8.31pm and 8.37pm.

Then a gap, which I assume is dinner.

Then 6 more activations between 10.16pm and 10.27pm.

This does not fit the 'parents out late and Maddie crying' pattern.

Try 2nd May, when the parents WERE out late (book/statements).

Agreed. The 1st is impossible IMO. However the 2nd fits extremely well.

[mercury]

- Mrs Fenn reported crying (directly below her flat, ie flat 5a) on the 1st May. On the 2nd she wasn't in IIRC.
- She reported over an hour of it
- Whichever day it was, if all of the Tapas group were doing half hourly checks, they would have heard crying. None of them said they did. And they should have heard continuous loud crying as all their flats were next to each other.
- The alternative is that Mrs Fenn's hearing was so good and the Tapas' group so bad that she heard crying comng from across the road or other/many flats removed OR that the half hourly checks never happened in reality

 &%+((£

This reminds me of one of those puzzles in Logic Magazine

[pegasus]

And Jane Tanner VERY CLEARLY showed where it happened on the Mccann video.  Right in front of the corner of the alleyway, but partially on the pavement and partially in the road.

And Jez VERY CLEARLY showed where it happened on his map.  On the alleyway corner.

And, Jezes description also equated to them meeting somewhere in that area by the alleyway corner and NOT at the gate.

Three positions that agree.  They chatted on the alleyway corner but seemingly on the kerb and in the roadway.

Why all the obfuscation?

"At this time they were stood with Gerry's back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10-15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left."
Source: Leic Police report 11 May 2007

[pathfinder73]

Agreed. The 1st is impossible IMO. However the 2nd fits extremely well.

The 2nd doesn't fit because Rachael would hear any crying next door if it had happened on the Wednesday screaming Daddy for 75 minutes. If Fenn could hear the continued loud crying then Rachael would also. The 1st does fit but the crying has changed from Madeleine to her younger sister Amelie. Madeleine heard her crying but not Gerry or Kate &%+((£

1 May 2007

"Only two minor aspects of that evening stand out as differing from the norm. The first was that Russell didn’t join us for dinner. Evie wasn’t well so he stayed with their girls in the apartment and Jane took his meal to him there. The second was that some time in the early hours Madeleine came through to our bedroom, complaining that Amelie was crying and had woken her up. Gerry checked on Amelie, who settled quickly, and we let Madeleine jump into bed with us." (Madeleine)

[ShiningInLuz]

The 2nd doesn't fit because Rachael would hear any crying next door if it had happened on the Wednesday screaming Daddy for 75 minutes. If Fenn could hear the continued loud crying then Rachael would also. The 1st does fit but the crying has changed from Madeleine to her younger sister Amelie. Madeleine heard her crying but not Gerry or Kate &%+((£

1 May 2007

"Only two minor aspects of that evening stand out as differing from the norm. The first was that Russell didn’t join us for dinner. Evie wasn’t well so he stayed with their girls in the apartment and Jane took his meal to him there. The second was that some time in the early hours Madeleine came through to our bedroom, complaining that Amelie was crying and had woken her up. Gerry checked on Amelie, who settled quickly, and we let Madeleine jump into bed with us." (Madeleine)

OK, so we have a problem here.  Mrs Fenn makes it 1st May, for an extended time.  Kate's phone records suggest she was busy on her phone just before the crying incident.  Was she nearby and ignored the crying?  Are we in scandal at Chaplin's territory?  Was there no crying that night?

The T9 stopped out late on 2nd.  Except for Rachael, if she got her rog right.  She was stuck in 5B and heard no crying.

The key parties admit being late out on 2nd.

Book says Maddie raised the crying incident on the morning of the 3rd.

Is Mrs Fenn right?  Did crying occur on 1st after Kate was busy on her phone?  Did the T9 then stop out on 2nd, regardless?  Did Maddie raise the crying on 3rd if it happened on 1st?  Has Rachael got her rog right?

[ShiningInLuz]

From Matthew's rog

4078 “Okay. Right. The Tuesday evening would have been the evening that Rachael stayed in the apartment?”
Reply “Rachael was sort of, erm, became unwell the Tuesday evening, erm, and she stayed in the apartment, yeah”.

[pathfinder73]

OK, so we have a problem here.  Mrs Fenn makes it 1st May, for an extended time.  Kate's phone records suggest she was busy on her phone just before the crying incident.  Was she nearby and ignored the crying?  Are we in scandal at Chaplin's territory?  Was there no crying that night?

The T9 stopped out late on 2nd.  Except for Rachael, if she got her rog right.  She was stuck in 5B and heard no crying.

The key parties admit being late out on 2nd.

Book says Maddie raised the crying incident on the morning of the 3rd.

Is Mrs Fenn right?  Did crying occur on 1st after Kate was busy on her phone?  Did the T9 then stop out on 2nd, regardless?  Did Maddie raise the crying on 3rd if it happened on 1st?  Has Rachael got her rog right?

Kate went back to the tapas bar to join the others after her phone calls just before 10:30. The phone calls have woken Madeleine and the crying starts for 75 minutes until they return at 11.45. (TUE 1 MAY 2007)

[misty]

Kate went back to the tapas bar to join the others after her phone calls just before 10:30. The phone calls have woken Madeleine and the crying starts for 75 minutes until they return at 11.45. (TUE 1 MAY 2007)

Mrs Fenn stated that the crying ceased when she heard the patio doors close at around 11.45pm. Why did neither Kate nor Gerry hear any crying when they opened the door? The children's bedroom door was apparently still in its rightful position & Madeleine was in her bed. A child crying for 75 mins would normally get out of bed, go looking for mum & dad, perhaps get in their bed or sit on the sofa - yet none of that seemed to happen. Madeleine didn't wander at all during those 75 mins.
Rachel didn't hear anything because there was nothing to hear.

[Carana]

OK, so we have a problem here.  Mrs Fenn makes it 1st May, for an extended time.  Kate's phone records suggest she was busy on her phone just before the crying incident.  Was she nearby and ignored the crying?  Are we in scandal at Chaplin's territory?  Was there no crying that night?

The T9 stopped out late on 2nd.  Except for Rachael, if she got her rog right.  She was stuck in 5B and heard no crying.

The key parties admit being late out on 2nd.

Book says Maddie raised the crying incident on the morning of the 3rd.

Is Mrs Fenn right?  Did crying occur on 1st after Kate was busy on her phone?  Did the T9 then stop out on 2nd, regardless?  Did Maddie raise the crying on 3rd if it happened on 1st?  Has Rachael got her rog right?

A different possibility is that it wasn't Madeleine that she heard, nor even a single child throughout the duration. I find it quite feasible that she heard children in different apartments, possibly with the last one being Amelie (who did cry that night, but later than Mrs Fenn's recollection).

It's often hard to locate exactly where noise is coming from in an apartment building and there could be the old sensibility factor at play here as well: child heard crying, child disappeared... same child? She heard patio doors sliding from the floor below and the crying then stopped - it would be easy to presume that the crying came from 5A. However, if it was 5A, how come she didn't also hear either of the gates or anyone climbing the steps?

It's unfortunate that the PJ didn't think to:

- interview her for three months,
- check the date and time with her friend Edna,
- check if other occupants had children crying that evening, and
- do a sound reconstruction...

[pegasus]

A different possibility is that it wasn't Madeleine that she heard, nor even a single child throughout the duration. I find it quite feasible that she heard children in different apartments, possibly with the last one being Amelie (who did cry that night, but later than Mrs Fenn's recollection).

It's often hard to locate exactly where noise is coming from in an apartment building and there could be the old sensibility factor at play here as well: child heard crying, child disappeared... same child? She heard patio doors sliding from the floor below and the crying then stopped - it would be easy to presume that the crying came from 5A. However, if it was 5A, how come she didn't also hear either of the gates or anyone climbing the steps?

It's unfortunate that the PJ didn't think to:

- interview her for three months,
- check the date and time with her friend Edna,
- check if other occupants had children crying that evening, and
- do a sound reconstruction...

Put it this way, what time did they get home on the 1st?
Early.
Way too early for it to be the night reported by the lady upstairs.
And what times did they get home on the 2nd?
Look at the statements, the late night.

BTW I realise that it is very complicated for current investigation to formally requast PJ to requisition landline records from Portugal Telecom, could take months. A simple but much less good way would be to ask niece what date her aunt told her, that would not involve PJ or PT, no months delay, same country same jurisdiction. I might be wrong but would be daft to not check IMO.

[Eleanor]

So absolutely No Trust in this at all.

I have been at this game for too long, but it still completely creases me that so many of you have such an appalling opinion of life in general.

I will probably never recover.  You have all done so much damage to me, before I even think of The McCanns.  For all of my life I am going to remember that there is no kindness.

Oh, just to half remain On Topic.  I have read most of our Strange Witness Statement, none of which any Court would even give house room to.

[G-Unit]

This isn't a witness statement, but I have often wondered what it means. Something happened. It didn't happen because the parents left the children asleep though. If the children hadn't been left would it still have happened? If the children had been awake would it still have happened?

"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."
Kate McCann: My struggle to control 'very difficult' Madeleine Daily Mail

[G-Unit]

Another one that isn't a statement;

Two new witnesses have emerged saying they saw a man carrying a large bundle on a beach near Praia da Luz the morning after Madeleine vanished. They said the man sped off on a jetski with the 3ft-long load on his lap and met a small boat offshore.

One witness, a 58-year-old British woman, said: "The man was acting very strange, he was dressed in black and left on a black jetski with a bundle on his lap. The bundle was definitely big enough to hold Madeleine. It could have been her."

The witness was on holiday in the Algarve with her 70-year-old husband when they spotted the jetski man on quiet Salema beach, six miles from Praia da Luz. Her husband said: "We were 30 yards away from the jetski. Either the bundle was tied on to the seat in front of him or he was just holding it on with his knees, but it was quite large."

The woman said the jetski left in a hurry and met a small grey military-style boat with funnels. But they didn't see it leave. She added: "We must only assume the man and the jetski were both taken on to the boat."

Their suspicions were passed onto Portuguese police

Mr Mitchell said: "Detective agency Metodo 3 are looking at it and endeavouring to get to the bottom of it. The timing is potentially significant as is the placing."
 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id80.html