Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 591988 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1515 on: June 26, 2015, 07:19:17 PM »
KATE slept in the children's bedroom, in the bed next to the window, because he was snoring. (GM 10 May)

I decided to go and sleep with the children. This was highly unusual; unprecedented, even: the only occasions when we ever slept apart were when our jobs and on-call duties dictated it. I wasn’t the type to flounce off to the spare room and never would have done so at home. (Madeleine)

And feverishly washing stains the following morning instead of watching you daughter sailing or going to the beach with the others. Have you gave a full account of the truth? How did you feel about your husband on the day your daughter disappeared to take the 'unprecedented' step of sleeping in the spare bed? And left in the apartment again on your own with the kids whilst the rest were watching your husband and other guys playing tennis. Maybe you didn't want to take the kids out to watch him.

I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we'd, you know I'd come, come back to play tennis and err Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate. (DP)  &%+((£

Sounds to me like a row which carried on from the evening before into the following day.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1516 on: June 26, 2015, 07:21:14 PM »
I could accept it if he'd mentioned any of the others in the group. But why the only one who didn't check any children whatsoever on any evening throughout the week? Sorry, it doesn't make sense. He also tried to infer that the other's checked and that's why the door was left unlocked. No-one else checked until 3rd May. Don't forget, I'm assuming that the statements are correct because some statements are accepted as correct by some and others are questioned. That's not logical. either all incorrect or all correct.

they are not all correct or incorrect...they are all suspect

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1517 on: June 26, 2015, 09:37:03 PM »
they are not all correct or incorrect...they are all suspect

Why do people refuse to accept a quote from the files when it doesn't fit with their theories, but are happy to quote those which do? Illogical! I think Martin Grime said that dog alerts do have evidential value without forensics to support them. If you disagree then my defence is that his report was mistranslated.  8(>((
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Offline Benice

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1518 on: June 27, 2015, 12:35:27 PM »
Why do people refuse to accept a quote from the files when it doesn't fit with their theories, but are happy to quote those which do? Illogical! I think Martin Grime said that dog alerts do have evidential value without forensics to support them. If you disagree then my defence is that his report was mistranslated.  8(>((


IMO 'common sense' plays a large part in working out whether or not a mistranslation/misunderstanding has occurred.   

IMO many sceptics simply do not recognise the serious implications of the language barrier  - when one wrongly translated word or even a typing error can totally alter the meaning of what a person had actually said.

For example:-

Quote from Fiona Payne's summarised statement on 16th May. (talking about RM)

Quote
- That she never saw this individual before, and saw him for the first time, as stated, on the night of May 3rd, around 22H39, outside, and next to the door of the McCANN apartment in the company of GNR elements, who had arrived.
- That at this point, one and a half hours had passed since KATE McCANN had noted that her daughter had disappeared.
Unquote

The time given of 22H39 is obviously wrong.

Common sense dictates that it is a simple  typing error - and should have been 23H29 - which unlike 22H39  -  actually is 1.1/2 hours after Kate raised the alarm.    However due to an error by the typist  - where IMO the nos 2&3 have been transposed - the statement at that point is incorrect.

Common sense also dictates that as Martin Grime gives his warning about 'no evidential value' numerous times, there is no way such a massive mistranslation (had there been one) would go unnoticed over and over again - either by himself or others.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline G-Unit

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1519 on: June 27, 2015, 01:26:05 PM »

IMO 'common sense' plays a large part in working out whether or not a mistranslation/misunderstanding has occurred.   

IMO many sceptics simply do not recognise the serious implications of the language barrier  - when one wrongly translated word or even a typing error can totally alter the meaning of what a person had actually said.

For example:-

Quote from Fiona Payne's summarised statement on 16th May. (talking about RM)

Quote
- That she never saw this individual before, and saw him for the first time, as stated, on the night of May 3rd, around 22H39, outside, and next to the door of the McCANN apartment in the company of GNR elements, who had arrived.
- That at this point, one and a half hours had passed since KATE McCANN had noted that her daughter had disappeared.
Unquote

The time given of 22H39 is obviously wrong.

Common sense dictates that it is a simple  typing error - and should have been 23H29 - which unlike 22H39  -  actually is 1.1/2 hours after Kate raised the alarm.    However due to an error by the typist  - where IMO the nos 2&3 have been transposed - the statement at that point is incorrect.

Common sense also dictates that as Martin Grime gives his warning about 'no evidential value' numerous times, there is no way such a massive mistranslation (had there been one) would go unnoticed over and over again - either by himself or others.

How many times has Kate McCann described the open window, open shutters and closed curtains? Yet the curtains were also open according to her statements. How many times did Grime repeat his warning then? I'll stick to what the files say and leave it to others to pick and choose what they believe is mistranslated (which only arises imo when people don't like what the files say, like when three people agreed that Kate McCann said she was worried about leaving the patio door open)
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Offline misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1520 on: June 27, 2015, 03:21:29 PM »
There is evidence that names of people in nearby homes  who were spoken to by the PJ in the days after the disappearance were incorrectly recorded.
How crucial could that have been when entering a name into a computer to check criminal history?

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1521 on: June 27, 2015, 03:34:45 PM »
There is evidence that names of people in nearby homes  who were spoken to by the PJ in the days after the disappearance were incorrectly recorded.
How crucial could that have been when entering a name into a computer to check criminal history?
The PJ checked ID documents of people they took statements from.

Offline misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1522 on: June 27, 2015, 03:40:22 PM »
The PJ checked ID documents of people they took statements from.

So why are names incorrectly recorded on the typed reports?

Offline Anna

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1523 on: June 27, 2015, 04:01:13 PM »
So why are names incorrectly recorded on the typed reports?

IIRC one was the chap with a german wife. It took a lot of working out, who he was. I cant remember the name now.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1524 on: June 27, 2015, 04:02:01 PM »
So why are names incorrectly recorded on the typed reports?
Usually names of witnesses are written correctly, but there are exceptions, which one are you looking at?

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1525 on: June 27, 2015, 04:06:47 PM »
IIRC one was the chap with a german wife. It took a lot of working out, who he was. I cant remember the name now.
There was ß transcribed as b.

Offline Anna

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1526 on: June 27, 2015, 05:04:58 PM »
So why are names incorrectly recorded on the typed reports?

I found the one that I was looking for KPK which should have been KPF.
 I also found his birth as is on his passport. So it was a typing error, but as you say, how would they check for any criminal activity with a wrong name?
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1527 on: June 27, 2015, 05:09:21 PM »
There was ß transcribed as b.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EXTERNAL.htm

3) Richard Andrew Gorril
--- A phone message told that in house no. 4 on Rua da Lajes lives an Englishman, with a short beard, 50 or more years old, single and with limited social contact. The person was approached and invited to identify himself. He was identified, through his passport ..., as being R.A.Gorril, born in 1945 in Peterborough, England.
--- He invited us into his home and walked us through it, advancing that in England, in similar cases, the people, voluntarily, placed themselves totally as the disposal of the authorities. He explained that he enjoyed to live alone. He reads, watches television and communicates with friends by mail [e-mail]. He has been at home during recent days except for Saturday, 5 May, when he went to the Lagos market where he bought fish, fruit and vegetables.
--- As for the events he knows nothing of interest to the investigation4EXTERNAL INQUIRY
            ------------------------------------
Should read Richard Andrew GORRIE (that took some finding!)

           -------------------------------------
Date: 2007/05/09
Place: Edificio Pedras Brancas, no. *** - Luz - Lagos

Responsible Officers: Reis Santos, Inspector Chief, Helder Carmo and Tony Almeida

Description and result:
---At 08H30, it came to the attention of the PJ, from an individual who chose not to identify himself, that the day before yesterday (08/05/07), a couple resident at number *** Edificio Pedras Brancas ' Luz ' Lagos, had conversed, and in the middle of the conversation it appeared to him that they were discussing a child and the possibility of the Police finding her in that place;
---We immediately left for that residence indicated above;
---Upon approaching the residence in question, we were greeted by the owner identified as K*** P***** K*****, born 12/04/1968, in Scarborough ' U.K., holder of a British passport no. ******, and to whom we explained the reason for our visit. He immediately invited the PJ inspectors to enter and to carry out all necessary checks;
---In conversation with K*** K******, he confirmed having had a discussion with his wife and referred to the situation of the missing child and that she had to be found by the police in the Luz area;
---K*** ***** also informed the officers that on 02/05/2007, he was hospitalised due to a right foot fracture;
---He also identified his wife, S****** D***** R*****, - Germany, holder of a German passport

    ----------------------------------------------------------

Karl Karkas should read Karl Farkas
Sabine Dagmar Robner should read Sabine Dagmar Rohner.

     -----------------------------------------------------------

That's 3 that I know of. and whilst none of these people have given cause for suspicion, it proves that the PJ may well have missed criminals in the heart of PdL simply because they have mis-spelt a foreign name.







Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1528 on: June 27, 2015, 05:39:58 PM »
@misty You have got one of those names wrong. That letter is a ß.

Offline misty

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #1529 on: June 27, 2015, 06:54:55 PM »
@misty You have got one of those names wrong. That letter is a ß.

Have you got a link to the passport or handwritten notes?