Strange Witness Statements

[mercury]

"The top was not seen well enough, although there was thought to be another colour involved, possibly pink"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
as illustrated in the picture JT did with artist here
https://youtu.be/DCewUVxDi9Y

I agree the SY photo blanket may not be pink, but IMO would look pink under the orange light.
But the SY photo pyjama top is pink.
Maybe she saw the pink top not the blanket?

But she didn't see a top. She saw only the legs.And she said the child was not covered with a blanket.
That "statement" as I said which is "quoted" in her rogatory interview (which you posted the link for)  as coming from past statenents, is from the joint statement prepared by Control Risks group.(see my previous link)  In all her police statements she said she only saw the legs and bottom of pyjamas, never a pink top or colour pink at the top.

She repeated the same thing on bbc Panorama.
BILTON: Describe exactly what he's carrying, what you can see.

JANE: Well I could see.. I could tell it was a child, and I could see the feet and... feet and the bottom of the pyjamas, and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.

****

PS I have forgotten how this conversation started so will leave it for now on the back burner till later

[pegasus]

But she didn't see a top. She saw only the legs.And she said the child was not covered with a blanket.
That "statement" as I said which is "quoted" in her rogatory interview (which you posted the link for)  as coming from past statenents, is from the joint statement prepared by Control Risks group.(see my previous link)  In all her police statements she said she only saw the legs and bottom of pyjamas, never a pink top or colour pink at the top.

She repeated the same thing on bbc Panorama.
BILTON: Describe exactly what he's carrying, what you can see.

JANE: Well I could see.. I could tell it was a child, and I could see the feet and... feet and the bottom of the pyjamas, and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.

****

PS I have forgotten how this conversation started so will leave it for now on the back burner till later

The joint statement is valid and important even if it was given indirectly to PJ.

[mercury]

The joint statement is valid and important even if it was given indirectly to PJ.

I wasnt questioning because it was given directly or not, just the content, which does not match with police statements of the same time (in fact the same day)

I don't know how many times I have to say this, never once in statements did JT say say she saw a top or a blanket let alone the colour of it.  Oh well, vampire hour. Goodnight.

[pegasus]

I wasnt questioning because it was given directly or not, just the content, which does not match with police statements of the same time (in fact the same day)

The statements made directly to PJ on 4th and 10th May were typed as abbreviated summaries.
They are not transcripts of everything that was said.
Another example is top gate possibly being open at 9.30pm - not in the PJ statement summaries of 4th and 10th - but is in DCCB timeline.

[mercury]

The statements made directly to PJ on 4th and 10th May were typed as abbreviated summaries.
They are not transcripts of everything that was said.
Another example is top gate possibly being open at 9.30pm - not in the PJ statement summaries of 4th and 10th - but is in DCCB timeline.

That won't do as
t
1) JTs description of man and child was in extreme detail, and translated in detail,those extra details added after would have been included if spoken of, especially when of so much importance
2) She actually said nothing was covering the child so no blanket as you seem to assume she saw and tbh Im not sure why you are assuming anything

[sadie]

That won't do as
t
1) JTs description of man and child was in extreme detail, and translated in detail,those extra details added after would have been included if spoken of, especially when of so much importance
2) She actually said nothing was covering the child so no blanket as you seem to assume she saw and tbh Im not sure why you are assuming anything

It was said that she voluntarily went to a hypnotist, or some such "professional" to open her memory ... and she rememberd more.


I am presuming this was correct, but maybe not?


Anyone know any more about that?

[pathfinder73]

Sounds familiar.

[Mr Gray]

Sounds familiar.

things would be a lot clearer if the interviews had been audio taped...as it is I think the initial statements are a total mess

[pathfinder73]

things would be a lot clearer if the interviews had been audio taped...as it is I think the initial statements are a total mess

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http://www.nobodycases.com/

[mercury]

things would be a lot clearer if the interviews had been audio taped...as it is I think the initial statements are a total mess

So does that mean later statements were not such a "total mess"? And incidentally, how were the initial statements a "total mess"
Were you there?

[Carana]

It was said that she voluntarily went to a hypnotist, or some such "professional" to open her memory ... and she rememberd more.


I am presuming this was correct, but maybe not?


Anyone know any more about that?

The police gave her a cognitive interview.

4078    “Okay, so you think it was pink but you accept that it may not have been, the colour may have been distorted or it might have been such the power of suggestion I suppose.”

Reply    “That could have been that for me because the pyjamas I really tried to, it was in the interview the next day when they really pushed me you know I think you call it cognitive interview or whatever, really pushed me to get an idea of you know more details about the person and it was then that you know sort of the description of the pyjamas was more in my head than I’d initial, it was mainly the feet as an initial thing.”

4078    “Yeah.”

Reply    “But err so I don’t know, I may, that is the one I don’t know maybe that was power of suggestion but I thought I saw a pattern on the bottom.” (JT rog)

 

4078    “Yeah but then if that’s soon after the time.”

Reply    “With, with a turn up, and the turn up I mean I can’t stress this enough, that is the bit that makes me think so much that it is the same pyjamas.”


LP appears to have done the same for the other rogs as well.

1485
'And, as I say, we work in what we call a cognitive interview basis, what that means is, you know, we try and put you back at the time that you, you know, that we are referring to, to see what you can remember, alright'' (FP rog)

[Brietta]

The police gave her a cognitive interview.

4078    “Okay, so you think it was pink but you accept that it may not have been, the colour may have been distorted or it might have been such the power of suggestion I suppose.”

Reply    “That could have been that for me because the pyjamas I really tried to, it was in the interview the next day when they really pushed me you know I think you call it cognitive interview or whatever, really pushed me to get an idea of you know more details about the person and it was then that you know sort of the description of the pyjamas was more in my head than I’d initial, it was mainly the feet as an initial thing.”

4078    “Yeah.”

Reply    “But err so I don’t know, I may, that is the one I don’t know maybe that was power of suggestion but I thought I saw a pattern on the bottom.” (JT rog)

 

4078    “Yeah but then if that’s soon after the time.”

Reply    “With, with a turn up, and the turn up I mean I can’t stress this enough, that is the bit that makes me think so much that it is the same pyjamas.”


LP appears to have done the same for the other rogs as well.

1485
'And, as I say, we work in what we call a cognitive interview basis, what that means is, you know, we try and put you back at the time that you, you know, that we are referring to, to see what you can remember, alright'' (FP rog)

I think a classic example is Carol Tranmer's interview where she was led in and when the questioning became more intensive worked out for herself that she had given the wrong date in her previous interviews.

[mercury]

But nowhere did Tanner say she saw a pink top.(except in that 10th May 2007 joint statement) Even by November 2007, despite any interview techniques, she was saying she saw feet and the bottom of the pyjamas which had a pinky aspect. I'd like to know who put the colour of any top in the joint statement, and why it never appeared anywhere else at any time.

[mercury]

bump

[pathfinder73]

Matt Oldfield first statement 4 May 2007



See my theory thread for details.