How did he do it?

[simong]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?

2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?

4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

[Tim Invictus]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?
Bamber made this up to establish his albi ... he asked the police to pick him up but they told him to drive to the farm. He drove really slowly so he could arrive there after the police
2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?
Who knows ... I think he killed the twins in their sleep then burst in on his parents firing.

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?
Nevill was very strong and fit and Bamber had run out of bullets ... Nevill was either going for the phone to call the police or to activate the panic button that was downstairs. I personally think Nevill chased bamber who was going downstairs to reload
4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?
June's pushbike which was found at Bamber's cottage with no reason for it being there. Who would be seen in country lanes in the early hours of the morning?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

Just my opinions mate .... keep the questions coming as it's good to test our beliefs!

[simong]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?
Bamber made this up to establish his albi ... he asked the police to pick him up but they told him to drive to the farm. He drove really slowly so he could arrive there after the police
2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?
Who knows ... I think he killed the twins in their sleep then burst in on his parents firing.

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?
Nevill was very strong and fit and Bamber had run out of bullets ... Nevill was either going for the phone to call the police or to activate the panic button that was downstairs. I personally think Nevill chased bamber who was going downstairs to reload
4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?
June's pushbike which was found at Bamber's cottage with no reason for it being there. Who would be seen in country lanes in the early hours of the morning?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

Just my opinions mate .... keep the questions coming as it's good to test our beliefs!

Its nice to be able to ask questions.

The phonecall seems a very odd way of establishing an alibi. I have ridiculed it for a year now. A father calling his son whilst allowing his daughter to wander around the house with a gun, is naive at best, as the basis of your alibi for a multiple murder. Surely Bamber would know how bad the phonecall and the alleged dialogue would look. I have never understood this.

Having driven along the route he took from his house, he would have seen the police coming. You can see car headlights miles away. You would definately see flashing lights. Maybe he geniunely didn't want to arrive first and slowed down for that reason.

The point i am trying to make about Nevill is that, he battered him in the kitchen and reloaded, why not attack him with the gun in the bedroom and then go and reload. Nevill's injuries happened, to me out of neccessity because Nevill competed hard for control of the situation and took a hell of kicking before his body gave out. Maybe Nevill gained possession of the weapon in a struggle in the bedroom and chased the killer with the gun. Which would add some credence to the possibility of a phonecall to Jeremy. Just a theory  8-)(--)

I have always acknowledged the possibility of the cycle journey and unlike others i do think it is possible but i also feel it is unlikely. Just doesn't do it for me i am afraid.

If you believe in the positions of the shell casings found, the killer would have been inside the room when shooting, certainly for Sheila and towards the centre of the bed for Nevill and June's shots. Shell case positions after EP traped through the house are pretty unreliable to me.

[Admin]

The shell positions are pretty spot on Simon.  If the odd shell casing had been trod on it would probably be displaced a short distance if at all.  The general distribution of the shell casings and the bullets gives the position of the killer away quite nicely.  We know he stood over the boys to shoot them.  We know he shot Nevill and June from a distance before going in for the kill with close range shots.  We finally know that Sheila was shot with the gun against her neck so as to give the appearance of a suicide.

[Tim Invictus]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?
Bamber made this up to establish his albi ... he asked the police to pick him up but they told him to drive to the farm. He drove really slowly so he could arrive there after the police
2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?
Who knows ... I think he killed the twins in their sleep then burst in on his parents firing.

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?
Nevill was very strong and fit and Bamber had run out of bullets ... Nevill was either going for the phone to call the police or to activate the panic button that was downstairs. I personally think Nevill chased bamber who was going downstairs to reload
4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?
June's pushbike which was found at Bamber's cottage with no reason for it being there. Who would be seen in country lanes in the early hours of the morning?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

Just my opinions mate .... keep the questions coming as it's good to test our beliefs!

Its nice to be able to ask questions.

The phonecall seems a very odd way of establishing an alibi. I have ridiculed it for a year now. A father calling his son whilst allowing his daughter to wander around the house with a gun, is naive at best, as the basis of your alibi for a multiple murder. Surely Bamber would know how bad the phonecall and the alleged dialogue would look. I have never understood this.

Having driven along the route he took from his house, he would have seen the police coming. You can see car headlights miles away. You would definately see flashing lights. Maybe he geniunely didn't want to arrive first and slowed down for that reason.

The point i am trying to make about Nevill is that, he battered him in the kitchen and reloaded, why not attack him with the gun in the bedroom and then go and reload. Nevill's injuries happened, to me out of neccessity because Nevill competed hard for control of the situation and took a hell of kicking before his body gave out. Maybe Nevill gained possession of the weapon in a struggle in the bedroom and chased the killer with the gun. Which would add some credence to the possibility of a phonecall to Jeremy. Just a theory  8-)(--)

I have always acknowledged the possibility of the cycle journey and unlike others i do think it is possible but i also feel it is unlikely. Just doesn't do it for me i am afraid.

If you believe in the positions of the shell casings found, the killer would have been inside the room when shooting, certainly for Sheila and towards the centre of the bed for Nevill and June's shots. Shell case positions after EP traped through the house are pretty unreliable to me.

Simon I am trying to work out what your stance is and from what I gather I would guess you either think a third party did the murders or a third party and Bamber did them together. I am not quite clear though .... may I ask if you have a definite position on this?

[Weety]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?

2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?

4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

It was suggested as a joke here that Julie Mugford told him to call the police with that story when he called to tell her things had gone wrong (fight with Neville and 2 shots to Sheila). They couldn't trust plod to come to the conclusion that the lunatic sister had done it on their own now could they? Maybe it's not such a joke.

[Tim Invictus]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?

2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?

4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

It was suggested as a joke here that Julie Mugford told him to call the police with that story when he called to tell her things had gone wrong (fight with Neville and 2 shots to Sheila). They couldn't trust plod to come to the conclusion that the lunatic sister had done it on their own now could they? Maybe it's not such a joke.

I was that joker Weety and I agree maybe it wasn't so far from the mark.Bamber in a blind panic because he had to shoot Sheila twice calls Julie and Julie says call the police yourself and establish your albi by being at home in Goldhanger?

Far more plausible than Nelly/Tesko theories!

[abs]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?

2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?

4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

I can't see Jeremy pulling off those murders on his own. I just can't see it - and I can't see some other outsider (hitman) doing it either. The only way I can accept that Jeremy is the murderer is if he had an accomplice. Too daunting a task to go inside alone and have to deal with three adults.

Why would Jeremy shoot the boys first? They posed the least "threat" to his alledged mission. It seems that they were shot first, because they didn't wake up - although childred can sleep through a lot, I don't think they would sleep through loud shootings and screams probably (horrible to think about.)
Why use so many shots on two sleeping boys, eight all in all?

When I think about the murders, I always think, where was Sheila during the shootings? Where was she, what was she doing - why didn't she escape? One shooter couldn't control three people in two different rooms (if we assume that Sheila was in her bedroom when the shootings began). I can't make Sheila fit in - unless she was indeed the shooter.

[John]

For the sake of debate, Mike constantly posts up his theories of how Sheila carried out the killings. I have always doubted JB carrying out the killings himself for numerous reasons. I would enjoy hearing theories of how he actually did this.

My own doubts......

1. The phonecall from Nevill.....He didn't need to invent this part of his story so why did he?

2. How did he congregate and subdue three adults so that he could shoot them in the same room?

3. Why was Nevill allowed to get downstairs?

4. How did he get back to his house without being seen?

I have loads more but i can't remember them all.

I can't see Jeremy pulling off those murders on his own. I just can't see it - and I can't see some other outsider (hitman) doing it either. The only way I can accept that Jeremy is the murderer is if he had an accomplice. Too daunting a task to go inside alone and have to deal with three adults.

Why would Jeremy shoot the boys first? They posed the least "threat" to his alledged mission. It seems that they were shot first, because they didn't wake up - although childred can sleep through a lot, I don't think they would sleep through loud shootings and screams probably (horrible to think about.)
Why use so many shots on two sleeping boys, eight all in all?

When I think about the murders, I always think, where was Sheila during the shootings? Where was she, what was she doing - why didn't she escape? One shooter couldn't control three people in two different rooms (if we assume that Sheila was in her bedroom when the shootings began). I can't make Sheila fit in - unless she was indeed the shooter.

Its strange abs but I was just thinking about the same thing today.  The comments by David Boutflour about her not having a hair out of place only serves to heighten my interest on the point.  Why did Sheila look so relaxed in that photo of her taken by the police photographer before anyone disturbed the scene?  If Sheila had been alive throughout would she not have been in a state of fear?

Like you abs I have been trying to work out where Sheila fitted into the events.  If she was alive after June and Nevill were attacked why did she not go to June when the killer went downstairs to finish off Nevill?  If she was alive why did she not attend to her sons?  I wonder if there is any evidence that Sheila had been incapacitated in some way maybe with some form of anaesthesia before being moved to the bedroom and shot?

I honestly feel that she was shot while unconscious, her facial expression certainly points that way.  What do the rest of you think?

[Weety]

I really haven't seen enough dead people to know whether an apparent facial expression means anything at all. I imagine that at the point of death the muscles relax, and any expression just disappears. That seemed to be the case in the few I've seen anyway.

[John]

Maybe I didn't explain it properly Weety.    Sheila would have been distraught if she had still been alive and conscious when the twins were shot.  There would have been floods of tears which would have left tell tale marks behind on her face.  There were none.  There was also no sign that either twin had been disturbed after having been shot.

Traces of cannabis was found by the pathologist who examined Sheila, could she have been drugged?

[abs]

Maybe I didn't explain it properly Weety.    Sheila would have been distraught if she had still been alive and conscious when the twins were shot.  There would have been floods of tears which would have left tell tale marks behind on her face.  There were none.  There was also no sign that either twin had been disturbed after having been shot.

Traces of cannabis was found by the pathologist who examined Sheila, could she have been drugged?

It was very little cannabis that was found, I think.
You are right about her looking peaceful - and that seems so strange to me too. If she was not the shooter, and she knew her sons were shot, yes, she would have cried! I never thought about that.
To me her hair looks as if it is freshly washed and not combed after the washing.

[John]

Something just hasn't fallen into place yet. Sheila didn't have any bruising on her so she wasn't restrained as such, the only thing I can think of was that she had something like chloroform used on her to keep her out of the picture while June and Nevill were dealt with.  I am also suspicious that Sheila was moved while unconscious from her bedroom to the master bedroom where she was shot.

[abs]

Something just hasn't fallen into place yet. Sheila didn't have any bruising on her so she wasn't restrained as such, the only thing I can think of was that she had something like chloroform used on her to keep her out of the picture while June and Nevill were dealt with.  I am also suspicious that Sheila was moved while unconscious from her bedroom to the master bedroom where she was shot.

Possibly, but to me that seems a little complicated. And why transpost her to her parents´ bedroom, what is the logic in that?

[puglove]

Something just hasn't fallen into place yet. Sheila didn't have any bruising on her so she wasn't restrained as such, the only thing I can think of was that she had something like chloroform used on her to keep her out of the picture while June and Nevill were dealt with.  I am also suspicious that Sheila was moved while unconscious from her bedroom to the master bedroom where she was shot.

She did have gouge marks on her arm, though, which had bled. It looks like she was grabbed and pulled. She had obviously been in bed before the killings started. As had Ralph, you can see the indentation from his head on the pillow, although I know at one stage Mike said Ralph had never been to bed. And I want to reiterate the point about the tampon case found in the lounge. It still had half the tampon in it, it had not been used by Sheila. It was NOT the one in place when she died. It had been used for something else.