Sheila agitated in the early hours seemingly without provocation?

[Holly Goodhead]

When JB left WHF he said SC seemed undisturbed and uninterested by family discussions taking place.

PB was the last known person to speak to a victim, save the claimed call from NB to JB at circa 3am.  PB telephoned June at circa 10pm and during the conversation June told PB that SC was on her way to bed.

It is often said SC would not suddenly become agitated at circa 3am without any apparent provocation from others. 

I have recently come across the following newspaper article which states:

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/p/gambling-man-in-life-of-massacre-model.html?m=0

"Mrs Neva Temple, who lives next door said Sheila once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams.  'She was shouting loudly and I went to help.  She seemed very distraught.'

The above is a typical example of why I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ.  Not just the incident per se but the fact that the likes of Mrs Temple were not called as defence witnesses.

[Caroline]

Quite a strange article, they have used the Jubilee picture and Jeremy is referred to as 'a friend'.

[John]

When JB left WHF he said SC seemed undisturbed and uninterested by family discussions taking place.

PB was the last known person to speak to a victim, save the claimed call from NB to JB at circa 3am.  PB telephoned June at circa 10pm and during the conversation June told PB that SC was on her way to bed.

It is often said SC would not suddenly become agitated at circa 3am without any apparent provocation from others. 

I have recently come across the following newspaper article which states:

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/p/gambling-man-in-life-of-massacre-model.html?m=0

"Mrs Neva Temple, who lives next door said Sheila once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams.  'She was shouting loudly and I went to help.  She seemed very distraught.'

The above is a typical example of why I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ.  Not just the incident per se but the fact that the likes of Mrs Temple were not called as defence witnesses.

There is no evidence for this Holly but I do see what you are attempting to show.  The only evidence which you rightly pointed out came from Pamela who reported that Sheila was unusually quiet.  To reach the stage you claim would have required a massive change in mood which would have seen both Nevill and June already out of bed in an attempt to quieten her.  Unfortunately for your theory we know that neither were out of bed until roused by the gunman.   Nevill being shot as he went to the bedroom door and June as she lay in bed.

[Holly Goodhead]

There is no evidence for this Holly but I do see what you are attempting to show.  The only evidence which you rightly pointed out came from Pamela who reported that Sheila was unusually quiet.  To reach the stage you claim would have required a massive change in mood which would have seen both Nevill and June already out of bed in an attempt to quieten her.  Unfortunately for your theory we know that neither were out of bed until roused by the gunman.   Nevill being shot as he went to the bedroom door and June as she lay in bed.

It would be interesting to hear accounts from anyone who might have been with SC earlier in the day/eve prior to Mrs Temple's account to ascertain her earlier mood.

I don't believe NB was in the bedroom when June was shot initially.  I think he was in the kitchen phoning JB and run up stairs when he heard gunfire.

[Holly Goodhead]

Quite a strange article, they have used the Jubilee picture and Jeremy is referred to as 'a friend'.

I guess it depends on your definition of "strange"!  Perhaps the reporting style of some 30 years ago?  Bit before your time 

[Caroline]

I guess it depends on your definition of "strange"!  Perhaps the reporting style of some 30 years ago?  Bit before your time 

Not before my time, but not far into it!

[Holly Goodhead]

Not before my time, but not far into it!

Yes you said you're a few years younger than JB.  So you have some 23 years to play with 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

[Caroline]

Yes you said you're a few years younger than JB.  So you have some 23 years to play with 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

He is 10 years older than me if you MUST know!

[Holly Goodhead]

He is 10 years older than me if you MUST know!

No MUST  &%+((£

You have your cougar years to look forward to 

[John]

It would be interesting to hear accounts from anyone who might have been with SC earlier in the day/eve prior to Mrs Temple's account to ascertain her earlier mood.

I don't believe NB was in the bedroom when June was shot initially.  I think he was in the kitchen phoning JB and run up stairs when he heard gunfire.

So what was June doing while all hell let loose according to you theory?  Your theory just doesn't fit with the evidence Holly.

Sheila just didn't go from quiet to volcano without disturbing the entire house.  In any event, a breakdown doesn't suddenly make someone a expert markswoman.  If someone has a mental breakdown, has access to a weapon with which they are thoroughly unfamiliar and goes on a killing rampage they tend to fire off shots and miss their target.  This didn't happen in the WHF murders, all but one of the shots found their target, whoever killed the family was very familiar with the rifle and a crack shot...ie Jeremy Bamber.

[adam]

So what was June doing while all hell let loose according to you theory?  Your theory just doesn't fit with the evidence Holly.

Sheila just didn't go from quiet to volcano without disturbing the entire house.  In any event, a breakdown doesn't suddenly make someone a expert markswoman.  If someone has a mental breakdown, has access to a weapon with which they are thoroughly unfamiliar and goes on a killing rampage they tend to fire off shots and miss their target.  This didn't happen in the WHF murders, all but one of the shots found their target, whoever killed the family was very familiar with the rifle and a crack shot...ie Jeremy Bamber.

Professor Macdonnell, who Jeremy hired after conviction, said June was shot with her head on the pillow. So was undoubtedly asleep when getting her first bullets.

Neville managed to move his head from his pillow seconds before getting his shots. Although he still got hit four times before getting downstairs.

[John]

Had Sheila been emotionally disturbed that night both Nevill and June would have been aware of it, they would not have been in bed sleeping.   The suggestion that Nevill was downstairs phoning for help while June lay sleeping upstairs is a non starter for so many reasons but then, we all knew that already.

[Holly Goodhead]

Had Sheila been emotionally disturbed that night both Nevill and June would have been aware of it, they would not have been in bed sleeping.   The suggestion that Nevill was downstairs phoning for help while June lay sleeping upstairs is a non starter for so many reasons but then, we all knew that already.

There is evidence that SC was emotionally disturbed ? /upset before she went to bed so much so June discussed her concerns with PB in the circa 10pm tel con.  June told PB SC was showing no interest in the twins or housework (apparently her flat was described as immaculate) and she wanted her opinion on SC.  PB found SC quiet on the phone and thought it unusual that she didn't say "Goodnight Auntie Pam" as she would normally do and just ceased talking without any close? 

Its entirely plausible that NB was in the kitchen with SC and phoned JB while June remained in the bedroom.  NB was the parent that managed SC as best he could not June.  NB fielded the late night phone calls when SC claimed she was the Virgin Mary, Joan of Arc etc.  NB was the one who made the trip to London, unaccompanied by June, after FE's distress call which resulted in SC's hospitalisation.

[Myster]

No, entirely implausible!

If Nevill was wide awake in the kitchen as you say, knew Sheila had a rifle and was making her way upstairs to shoot her mother or the twins, I'm pretty sure he'd have followed to get hold of it before she managed to harm anyone, instead of wasting time on the phone to call his son.  What was he... a wimp?

[APRIL]

No, entirely implausible!

If Nevill was wide awake in the kitchen as you say, knew Sheila had a rifle and was making her way upstairs to shoot her mother or the twins, I'm pretty sure he'd have followed to get hold of it before she managed to harm anyone, instead of wasting time on the phone to call his son.  What was he... a wimp?

Several people, when discussing the possibility of Sheila's agitation present her as a screaming Virago. From what we know of her earlier behaviour, ie her lethargy, lack if interest in domesticity/her children, her apparent unresponsiveness to PB, it seems far more likely that she was in a place where she couldn't be reached, MAYBE, couldn't be approached. She could still have been described as having "gone crazy," just not, at that point, actively so.