What makes it impossible for Sheila to have commited the murders?

[david1819]

This is my first post and I just want to add that I very much believe Jeremy committed this crime. But I acknowledge there is a very slim possibility he could be innocent. that is where I stand

So what evidence proves Shelia could not have done this? I believe it is possible, paranoid schizophrenics have committed such acts before see the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Seegrist

Please share your thoughts

[Andrea]

A Schizophrenic is more likely to be a victim of crime than commit one.
I get sick to the back teeth of people judging others because they have a mental illness.

No wonder there is such a stigma attached to it.
Sheila showed NO signs of causing all that mayhem, a flimsy sleeve less nightie, not a mark on her.
Only her own blood, no GSR.

Bamber was a psychopath, even the defence shrink said so.

He planned it, primed the police into thinking it was Sheila, had over a month to get rid of incriminating evidence.
Hes guilty. FACT
He will DIE in prison, a guilty man who has shown no remorse for the vile crime he committed and tried to push on his sister.

He will NEVER be released.

[Andrea]

Also, how many 'normal' people have committed crimes?

[Holly Goodhead]

This is my first post and I just want to add that I very much believe Jeremy committed this crime. But I acknowledge there is a very slim possibility he could be innocent. that is where I stand

So what evidence proves Shelia could not have done this? I believe it is possible, paranoid schizophrenics have committed such acts before see the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Seegrist

Please share your thoughts

Hi David.  Welcome to the forum.

I am not convinced that the root of SC's mental health issues was paranoid schizophrenia:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

As far as I can see there's no conclusive evidence to show SC could or couldn't be responsible.  Whether a multi-disciplinary by PROFESSIONALS using up-to-date methods and technologies could shed new light on the case I have no idea.

I think all see SC as a victim, but some see SC as responsible for the tragedy albeit on the grounds of diminished responsibility.  Others see JB callously using SC and her vulnerabilities with mental illness as a cover for his personal involvement and responsibility for 5 murders.

It is not just lay people such as myself that believe JB is the victim of a MoJ.  The likes of Michael Turner QC is on record as saying he believes JB is innocent:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9716069/Devils-advocate-Michael-Turner-prepares-for-his-toughest-case.html

In the absence of any stand out conclusive evidence either way I guess it comes down to how beliefs are formed:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jun/30/psychology.neuroscience

Perhaps the best analogy is religion: non-believers v believers.  No conclusive evidence showing God(s) exist or don't exist but most of us hold one view or the other. 

 &%+((£

[david1819]

A Schizophrenic is more likely to be a victim of crime than commit one.
I get sick to the back teeth of people judging others because they have a mental illness.

No wonder there is such a stigma attached to it.
Sheila showed NO signs of causing all that mayhem, a flimsy sleeve less nightie, not a mark on her.
Only her own blood, no GSR.

Bamber was a psychopath, even the defence shrink said so.

Well there is a huge contradiction in what you have written. Your don't like people judging others because of mental illness yet you judge JB because he is a psychopath?  Psychopathy is a mental illness

[Holly Goodhead]

Well there is a huge contradiction in what you have written. Your don't like people judging others because of mental illness yet you judge JB because he is a psychopath?  Psychopathy is a mental illness

I think psychopathy is deemed a personality disorder as opposed to mental illness?

As far as I am aware no evidence exists showing JB has ever been diagnosed as a psychopath.  I think the incident Andrea is referring to comes from Roger Wilkes book where apparently just prior to the trial JB's defence called a psychiatrist into chambers to seek his opinion on JB.  He said something along the lines of JB showing all the classic signs of psychopathy in that he was able to push things to the back of his mind and forget.  I don't believe a psychiatrist could/should arrive at such a conclusion without assessing the individual face-to-face using proper diagnostic tools in the right setting. 

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

Psychopathy is basically a lack of empathy and lack of empathy is a feature of an 'attachment disorder'. 

[APRIL]

If psychopathy was judged by our ability to put disagreeable happenings to the back of our minds there are very few of us who wouldn't fit the criteria. For a psychiatrist to make such an on the spot assessment was out of order. Nevertheless as his opinion has carried enough weight for it to be quoted after 30 years, one wonders what would be said had his view been different.

[david1819]

I think psychopathy is deemed a personality disorder as opposed to mental illness?

As far as I am aware no evidence exists showing JB has ever been diagnosed as a psychopath.  I think the incident Andrea is referring to comes from Roger Wilkes book where apparently just prior to the trial JB's defence called a psychiatrist into chambers to seek his opinion on JB.  He said something along the lines of JB showing all the classic signs of psychopathy in that he was able to push things to the back of his mind and forget.  I don't believe a psychiatrist could/should arrive at such a conclusion without assessing the individual face-to-face using proper diagnostic tools in the right setting. 

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

Psychopathy is basically a lack of empathy and lack of empathy is a feature of an 'attachment disorder'.

It is certainly an abnormality of the mind and our culture has created a stigma attached to it. If no less than 1% of the population has psychopathy how many kill their entire family?

Besides psychopathy can be in the favour of JBs defence. I believe Jeremy does have psychopathy however if he did not commit this crime it would explain his behaviour after the murders took place.

If he did or didn't commit the crime his behaviour at the funeral for example would be no different as people with psychopathy only act emotions not actually feel them. If he does have psychopathy it would explain why he did not seem that emotional after the murders? Police and investigators felt his behaviour was unusual in the weeks after the crime, psychopathy would explain his emotionally detached behaviour in all instances.

There is a paradox here psychopathy can go for or against him

[Holly Goodhead]

It is certainly an abnormality of the mind and our culture has created a stigma attached to it. If no less than 1% of the population has psychopathy how many kill their entire family?

Besides psychopathy can be in the favour of JBs defence. I believe Jeremy does have psychopathy however if he did not commit this crime it would explain his behaviour after the murders took place.

If he did or didn't commit the crime his behaviour at the funeral for example would be no different as people with psychopathy only act emotions not actually feel them. If he does have psychopathy it would explain why he did not seem that emotional after the murders? Police and investigators felt his behaviour was unusual in the weeks after the crime, psychopathy would explain his emotionally detached behaviour in all instances.

There is a paradox here psychopathy can go for or against him

People are not robots.  Some people wear their hearts on their sleeves and can easily become emotional.  Others are more contained and less demonstrative.  Remember how composed the young princes, William and Harry, were as they mingled with crowds prior to their beloved mother's funeral and during?  There is absolutely no correlation between psychopathy and an inability to arouse quickly and become visibly emotional.  In many societies, especially with males, it is seen as bad manners to become overly emotional in the presence of others. 

If you have been following the case of Shrien Dewani case you will see a lack of grief is something that has been levelled at him.

You believe JB is a psychopath fine but that is not the view of those who have formerly assessed JB.

[APRIL]

It is certainly an abnormality of the mind and our culture has created a stigma attached to it. If no less than 1% of the population has psychopathy how many kill their entire family?

Besides psychopathy can be in the favour of JBs defence. I believe Jeremy does have psychopathy however if he did not commit this crime it would explain his behaviour after the murders took place.

If he did or didn't commit the crime his behaviour at the funeral for example would be no different as people with psychopathy only act emotions not actually feel them. If he does have psychopathy it would explain why he did not seem that emotional after the murders? Police and investigators felt his behaviour was unusual in the weeks after the crime, psychopathy would explain his emotionally detached behaviour in all instances.

There is a paradox here psychopathy can go for or against him

The majority of psychopaths aren't killers which is a relief given that statistically -and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong- I believe one in eight of us is one. They are certainly risk takers which probably explains why they get the top jobs. Think about politicians................or perhaps NOT!!!! or perhaps surgeons who are clever -BRAVE- enough to perform surgical miracles. I don't imagine either could do their job without the emotional detachment attributed to psychopaths. Could psychopathy be attributed to paedophiles? Is it an irony that possible emotional attachment can be so closely aligned to emotional detachment?

[Holly Goodhead]

It is certainly an abnormality of the mind and our culture has created a stigma attached to it. If no less than 1% of the population has psychopathy how many kill their entire family?

Besides psychopathy can be in the favour of JBs defence. I believe Jeremy does have psychopathy however if he did not commit this crime it would explain his behaviour after the murders took place.

If he did or didn't commit the crime his behaviour at the funeral for example would be no different as people with psychopathy only act emotions not actually feel them. If he does have psychopathy it would explain why he did not seem that emotional after the murders? Police and investigators felt his behaviour was unusual in the weeks after the crime, psychopathy would explain his emotionally detached behaviour in all instances.

There is a paradox here psychopathy can go for or against him

David you may or may not be aware that The Jeremy Bamber forum contains a lot of testimony by way of witness statements.  One such statement from Colin Caffell's mother (Colin father of the twins) Mrs Brencher states the following:

"I saw Sheila again in the middle of June at her flat.  Whilst I was there she broke down in my arms crying.  This was the first time I had ever seen Sheila show any emotion.  She was very upset and miserable about her life and she wanted her children to live with her again.  She stayed with me for a few hours and was obviously unhappy and distressed".

[John]

The difficulty with any 'Sheila done it' theory is that Sheila had no reason to want to do it.  However, the only other person who could have 'done it' and as far as most of the evidence suggests did in fact 'do it', was Jeremy Bamber.  Hope that covers it?

[APRIL]

The difficulty with any 'Sheila done it' theory is that Sheila had no reason to want to do it.  However, the only other person who could have 'done it' and as far as most of the evidence suggests did in fact 'do it', was Jeremy Bamber.  Hope that covers it?

The difficulty there is that whilst WE may say "Sheila had no reason to want to do it" we're looking in from the outside. Only Sheila -and possibly her therapist, if she had one- really knew how Sheila felt. Speaking personally, I'd have been in no hurry to trade places.

[Myster]

The difficulty with any 'Sheila done it' theory is that Sheila had no reason to want to do it.  However, the only other person who could have 'done it' and as far as most of the evidence suggests did in fact 'do it', was Jeremy Bamber.  Hope that covers it?

That's wishful thinking, John!   The lady's not for turning... LOL!

[John]

That's wishful thinking, John!   The lady's not for turning... LOL!

There's always hope!      I'm sure even a stalwart like Holly can see the evidence is heavily stacked against Bamber.