Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[AnneGuedes]

You answered your own question, Benice. If we can't prove the window was never opened by an outsider, neither can the police.

The lack of fingerprints, even fragmentary, put a serious doubt on an outsider, a doubt that is reinforced by the lack of damaged lichen on the sill. All experts, UK and PT, agreed that nobody passed through that window.

[Lyall]

The lack of fingerprints, even fragmentary, put a serious doubt on an outsider, a doubt that is reinforced by the lack of damaged lichen on the sill. All experts, UK and PT, agreed that nobody passed through that window.

I know Anne, it's extremely unlikely, but it's not so easy to state the window wasn't opened by an outsider who was already in the apartment. We can't do that, and neither can the police.

They have to be careful, and so far they have been careful to avoid mentioning any of the controversial areas of the case (apart from the 9.15 sighting, and Redwood clearly didn't enjoy that experience).

The window is definitely one area they'll want to leave well alone.

[icabodcrane]

What proof do you have that the parents 'pretended' the window and shutters were open?

IMO it is more accurate to say there is no proof of WHY the window and shutters were opened - but there are various credible reasons as to why an abductor(s)  would open them.

Whereas it is your prerogative to believe the McCanns lied about the windows - SY obviously believe they told the truth.    Don't you ever wonder why their conclusions regarding the veracity of the McCanns are the opposite of yours?

I disagree Benice

Unless the window was used as  a point of entry  (  a break in )  then is no  'credible'  reason for it being open at all 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There's as well no evidence that Madeleine wasn't harmed and disposed of by her parents in a swift and definitive way.
No evidence at all ?
There's evidence the shutters and window weren't used by an intruder or outruder.
So why did the parents pretend they were open ?
I find that more challenging than imagining Smithman was a zombie.
I'm more pragmatic than you, Sherlock.
It's within the Met's (seconded by 6 inspectors of Faro) abilities to establish the identity of all 3/4 little girl matching Smithman's child. At this low season time, local ones are not so many and go to the kindergarten.

So let's see what they say. They only just released the e-fits (for what they're worth).

Presumably SY have already talked to all the parents whose children were at the kindergarten that night and have ruled out Smithman as being one of them.

[Sherlock Holmes]

'we have no idea who Smithman was'

Sherlock by name only.

And what do you mean by that, Wonderfulspam?

[Benice]

You answered your own question, Benice. If we can't prove the window was never opened by an outsider, neither can the police.

You have missed the point Lyall - which was that SY obviously believe that Kate and Gerry were telling the truth when they said the bedroom window and shutters had been opened by an intruder.   


     

[stephen25000]

You have missed the point Lyall - which was that SY obviously believe that Kate and Gerry were telling the truth when they said the bedroom window and shutters had been opened by an intruder.   


   

What proof is there they told the truth ?

[Rogerandout]

What proof is there they told the truth ?

What proof is there that your persistent negativism about any possible potential positive outcome is of any use whatsoever. Kneejerk negativism. It is almost as if you want Madeleine to be dead in order to blame the McCanns. No moral compass!

[Benice]

I disagree Benice

Unless the window was used as  a point of entry  (  a break in )  then is no  'credible'  reason for it being open at all

IMO there are several credible reasons.

The only way to check that the whole area/car park  in front of 5A was clear and they were not going to bump into anyone when they left  - was by looking through that window.    It was not possible to do that check from the recessed front door.

They could have been opened to provide a quick means of exit if someone unexpectedly came in through the patio doors.

They could have been opened to divert attention away from the fact that they had front door key.

[Wonderfulspam]

What proof is there that your persistent negativism about any possible potential positive outcome is of any use whatsoever. Kneejerk negativism. It is almost as if you want Madeleine to be dead in order to blame the McCanns. No moral compass!

To be fair, she is more than likely dead.

[stephen25000]

To be fair, she is more than likely dead.

Indeed. On the balance of probability in missing children cases, where the statitics have been quoted on numerous occasions,it is extremely unlikely that Madeleine is alive.

[Wonderfulspam]

Indeed. On the balance of probability in missing children cases, where the statitics have been quoted on numerous occasions,it is extremely unlikely that Madeleine is alive.

Furthermore it is quite likely the parents had some sort of involvement.

[Benice]

Indeed. On the balance of probability in missing children cases, where the statitics have been quoted on numerous occasions,it is extremely unlikely that Madeleine is alive.

Until they get proof that their daughter is dead the McCanns will carry on trying to find out what happened to her.  Just as Kerry Needham and the parents of other missing children who have vanished without a trace - also continue to do.

[Wonderfulspam]

Until they get proof that their daughter is dead the McCanns will carry on trying to find out what happened to her.  Just as Kerry Needham and the parents of other missing children who have vanished without a trace - also continue to do.

'vanished without a trace'

Someone left a 'trace' in the McCanns apartment. And someone saw a 'trace' in Rua da Escola Primiara.

[Carana]

Do you doubt it, Carana ? Have you seen pin pointed everywhere the fingerprints on the window frame ?

I haven't found anything other than this. If you have, I'd be interested.

MINISTRY OF JUSTICE

POLICIA JUDICIARIA

PORTIMAO CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT

 

Finger Print Inspection by Technical Police Team

 

 

 

Reg No 129/07

 

Assistant Specialist: Joao Barreiras

 

 

Policia Judiciaria

Portimao Criminal Investigation Department

Legal Identification Cabinet

 

 

At 01 time on 04-05-07, I , Joao Barreiras, Assistant Specialist, proceeded to inspect the location described below.

 

Signature

 

Crime: Disappearance of Child

 

Time:

Date: 03-04-2007 (sic)

Occurrence: About 22H00

 

Location:

Region: Lagos

Street or Place: Ocean Club Resort, Block 5, apartment 5A

Nature: Residence

 

NUIPC 201/07.0 OGALGS

 

Person Offended:

NAME MADELEINE MCCANN

 

VESTIGES COLLECTED

5….. Fingerprints….Inside interior window of the children’s bedroom…..DBT…..Suf

 

1. Methodology and means of operation:

2. Established number of supposed authors:

3. Abandoned objects:

4. Objects or values that were the target of the crime:

5. Importance of the damage incurred:
 
Observations: The fingerprint traces collected are identified as being the middle finger of the left hand (3x) and forefinger of the left hand (2x), of the missing girl’s mother,
The fingerprint inspection was only carried out on the inside of the window because it was night time, the location was sealed and preserved so that light conditions would permit the inspection of the residence to be finalised.


Accompanied by this (which only illustrates 4 prints for some reason) and seemingly no forensic analysis as to the position nor the implications. I haven't found any tests of prints on the outside of the window, and nothing personally identifiable on the shutter.