Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Lyall]

Any decent police force wouldn't tolerate that.  Are you sure or just making another assumption?

K McCann says it happened, Sadie.

[sadie]

K McCann says it happened, Sadie.

Post amended Lyall.  My mistake

See above

[Lyall]

Post amended Lyall.  My mistake

See above

 

[sadie]

6th SEPT 2007
They (the twins) also kissed Madeleine, who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold.
Tidy abductor ?

Dont understand that comment.

What do you mean by that Anne?

[sadie]

The top button was not pressed and the window  although closed was not locked. A petty thief thought everyone was out  (adults seen leaving and only one table lamp on in whole apartment and no noise, so it was a reasonable assumption), and so from outside he partly lifted the shutter and slid the east half of the window open and reached in and operated the strap to properly raise the shutter fully. This noise woke one child who ran into another room, and the would-be thief, seeing this, ran away,  never entering the apartment (he had thought there was absolutely no-one home). Mr Amarals doumentary video of this moment needs amending as follows: 1. the random waking needs to be replaced by waking caused by the shutter noise, and 2. the relaxed speed of exit to another room needs to be  increased, and 3. toy stays on bed.
Mr Amaral and Mr Flores were not the first to fail to see this simple sequence.
Someone else misinterpreted the evidence that very night and reached totally the wrong conclusion. IMO.

This is NOT FACT Pegasus.

It should NOT be stated as such.  It is misleading to the reader.

The "imo" only refers to the last line.

[sadie]

The open window isn't evidence pegasus, since only one person says they saw it.

Tommy Rot.   Of course it is evidence. 

Just cos you and some of your mates prefer not to believe ANYTHING in Kate, Gerrys and the Tapas groups statements [unless it supports your particular ideas] does not mean that it is not evdence.

[pegasus]

Yes indeed it is only my amateur opinion and it might be wrong so please read every post I make with an implied IMO in every phrase, including this one: The person accused of opening the window did not open it and moreover is totally innocent.

[Lyall]

Tommy Rot.   Of course it is evidence. 

Just cos you and some of your mates prefer not to believe ANYTHING in Kate, Gerrys and the Tapas groups statements [unless it supports your particular ideas] does not mean that it is not evdence.

It would have been evidence if it was open and had been left open for the others to see, but it wasn't.

[sadie]

It would have been evidence if it was open and had been left open for the others to see, but it wasn't.

You are wrong Lyall.

It was evidence by Kate ... just because you disbelieve it does not make it any other than evidence.

But then you and your mates disbelieve all the tapas and Mccann evidence automatically unless it helps promote your ideas.  Dontcha?

Nigh Night

[Lyall]

You are wrong Lyall.

It was evidence by Kate ... just because you disbelieve it does not make it any other than evidence.

But then you and your mates disbelieve all the tapas and Mccann evidence automatically unless it helps promote your ideas.  Dontcha?

Nigh Night

Yep, you got that right, but it is wise to be cautious about any witness statements that aren't corroborated by other witnesses.

And most of their statements aren't. Only J Wilkins can support part of the story.

[pegasus]

IMO when this case is officially solved it will be clear that the statements of the vast majority of these witnesses are completely honest. Certainly that includes this witness IMO. The "proof" that this witness opened the window is illogical and easily disproveable IMO.
A false deduction that this witness opened the window may have been a significant part of the reasons for an unfortunate decision IMO.

[colombosstogey]

The top button was not pressed and the window  although closed was not locked. A petty thief thought everyone was out  (adults seen leaving and only one table lamp on in whole apartment and no noise, so it was a reasonable assumption), and so from outside he partly lifted the shutter and slid the east half of the window open and reached in and operated the strap to properly raise the shutter fully. This noise woke one child who ran into another room, and the would-be thief, seeing this, ran away,  never entering the apartment (he had thought there was absolutely no-one home). Mr Amarals doumentary video of this moment needs amending as follows: 1. the random waking needs to be replaced by waking caused by the shutter noise, and 2. the relaxed speed of exit to another room needs to be  increased, and 3. toy stays on bed.
Mr Amaral and Mr Flores were not the first to fail to see this simple sequence.
Someone else misinterpreted the evidence that very night and reached totally the wrong conclusion. IMO.

How would a burglar know that?

[pegasus]

How would a burglar know that?

The thief does not know in advance whether the window is locked or unlocked. It takes only about 2 or 3 seconds to raise the shutter a few inches from outside and test if the window slides. If the window doesn't slide the thief simply gently lets the shutter down those few inches and moves on to a different target apartment.

[pegasus]

I understand that theory but how would the neatly folded bed covers come into it?

IMO it is possible the fairly neat covers are consistent with being on that bed when awakened by noise.
Covers are certainly not staged IMO, anyone staging them would put them in greater disarray.

[Carana]

The thief does not know in advance whether the window is locked or unlocked. It takes only about 2 or 3 seconds to raise the shutter a few inches from outside and test if the window slides. If the window doesn't slide the thief simply gently lets the shutter down those few inches and moves on to a different target apartment.

Interesting points, Pegasus. I'm not aware the forensic teams checked on the shutters of any other apartments for fingerprints that night.