Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Brietta]

A second reason to open from inside might have been as an alternative exit. It would be less visible for a child checker coming in via the patio door than opening the front door and running out in full view.

However, staging makes the most sense to me. I don't see why the parents would have done that as they both stated that they'd left the patio door unlocked anyway and at the very least also Matt.

The most likely reason, IMO, would still be someone with a key who used the window as a red herring.

To disguise the fact they had access to a key?

If staged they could never have hoped for it to be the diversionary tactic par excellence it turned out to be.

[pegasus]

About this hypothetical who person who has a key and enters and leaves through the front door.
And supposedly opens the window and shutter from inside, only to disguise the fact of having a key.
A questions:
Does this hypothetical person grab the child before, or after, opening window and shutter ?

[Carana]

About this hypothetical who person who has a key and enters and leaves through the front door.
And supposedly opens the window and shutter from inside, only to disguise the fact of having a key.
A questions:
Does this hypothetical person grab the child before, or after, opening window and shutter ?

Would it necessarily be just one person?

[Miss Taken Identity]

You seem to be stuck in 'day one' of Madeleine's disappearance.

However, if the idea was to open the shutters and window to prove to the police that an intruder had entered that way - then why didn't the McCanns make sure there were scuffs or marks on the wall/window cill to show that?

If they were going to claim the shutters had been forced open then why didn't they make marks on them to indicate that?     

Why didn't Gerry stand sentinel over the open shutters/window until the police arrived -  if this was his master-plan - which was going to prove to the police that Madeleine had been abducted by a stranger? 

And why on earth would he close the shutters/window BEFORE the police arrived - thus destroying his own plan?

The McCanns were educated intelligent people  - not the  brainless idiots they would have to be to NOT realise any of the above when they were apparently cooking up this grand plan to exonerate themselves.   I would have thought that anyone with a modicum of common sense could see that.

Kate found the window/shutters open and her daughter gone.  At that moment in time she would have been abnormal IMO  -not to think that an intruder had broken in that way and taken her daughter.     And so that was their very first assumption.    Later on they accepted that there were other ways an intruder could have entered/left  5A. 

Anyone who thinks the  McCanns are still claiming today that their child was definitely abducted via the window is way behind the times  IMO.

Yes G moved on to what? moving goal posts and scenarios to rejig history.

Anyway Benice,

However, if the idea was to open the shutters and window to prove to the police that an intruder had entered that way - then why didn't the McCanns make sure there were scuffs or marks on the wall/window cill to show that?

They were not that smart- leaving three children alone everynight is evidence of that.

If they were going to claim the shutters had been forced open then why didn't they make marks on them to indicate that? 

again not that smart...panic set in! if they were jemmied as claimed WHERE indeed is the evidence? Hmm

Why didn't Gerry stand sentinel over the open shutters/window until the police arrived -  if this was his master-plan - which was going to prove to the police that Madeleine had been abducted by a stranger? 

This is their story why ask me?

And why on earth would he close the shutters/window BEFORE the police arrived - thus destroying his own plan?

Excellent question... why not ask Gerry that- he will have the answer. but we are not allowed to ask questions  oh well..

The McCanns were educated intelligent people  - not the  brainless idiots they would have to be to NOT realise any of the above when they were apparently cooking up this grand plan to exonerate themselves.   I would have thought that anyone with a modicum of common sense could see that.




Intelligent? that is desputable. They failed to tell a very simple story exactly as it happened. They and you assume people with a modicum of sense cannot see through this. You would be wrong!

Kate found the window/shutters open and her daughter gone.  At that moment in time she would have been abnormal IMO  -not to think that an intruder had broken in that way and taken her daughter.     And so that was their very first assumption.    Later on they accepted that there were other ways an intruder could have entered/left  5A. 

Unmittigated Hog Wash of an explanation from someone who was NOT there? You re writing a book?

The jemmied shutters and whooshing curtains were part of the drama of having a child kidnapped fom her bed.

Someone elses version...AT THAT MOMENT Kate recalls she left the doors open -so Maddie could have wandered ( she went looking for her thinking she wandred) she does not want to let people know that her children were left alone in an unlocked flat and that is how she could have been abducted... SO  open curtains and jemmied  shutters. ( PR-shift the goal posts)

not to think that an intruder had broken in that way and taken her daughter. 

oopsy  Kate is still claiming she knew right away Maddie was taken...RIGHT AWAY means  what it says.

And so that was their very first assumption.
They had more theories?  oh yes as more people questioned their versions they adapted their story.

Later on they accepted that there were other ways an intruder could have entered/left  5A.  [/color]

Hmmmm when they had time to think about what a dogs dinner they made of their versions and that they were being analysed with fine tooth combs made them with the help of PR to adjust their position.  Nice.

So.. anyway  what was the point in mentioning the Jemmied shutters and whooshing.

And if Kate n Gerry changed their view about windows etc why can't they accept that Maddie may have wandered and been kidnapped?... well we all know the answer to that one! PR PR PR.

In my opinion I always go back to DAY ONE... that is where we will find out wat happened to Maddie. You and the McCanns may have moved on, but the story stays the same as written on pages.

[sadie]

Re: The bedroom window:

The only reason to open from inside = to stage.
The only reason to open from outside = to burgle.

Other reasons have been listed several times elsewhere on the forum

I will try to remember some

1)  As an emergency escape route
2)  As a place that chloroform or other equipment could be handed in or out
3)  For Tannerman the abductor, to encourage and instruct the nervous lifter who was probably someone known to Madeleine.  Someone she trusted.
4)  For Tannerman the abductor to receive messages from the third accomplis, the getaway driver.  Messages if someone was coming and pass these messages on to the lifter to scarper.  The third accomplis being on the fag-end balcony of block 6 opposite.  Torch messages probably - flashes.
5)  To give the false impression that Madeleine had climbed out of the window herself and gain time.  Possibly also not be investigated at all.
6)  To take the eye away from the fact that the front door [in blackness and hidden] was almost certainly used.  If a key had been "borrowed" or lent by an employee of OC, then the group would not want that discovered.
7)  To allow in a little natural light from the limited light outside, or additional light from the torch of Tannerman outside the window.  The lifter would not wish to switch the bedroom light on .  Also the lifter would want his/her hands free to carry Madeleine

There are other things but I cannot remember them at present.[/size]

[pathfinder73]

Re: The bedroom window:

Other reasons have been listed several times elsewhere on the forum

I will try to remember some

1)  As an emergency escape route
2)  As a place that chloroform or other equipment could be handed in or out
3)  For Tannerman the abductor, to encourage and instruct the nervous lifter who was probably someone known to Madeleine.  Someone she trusted.
4)  For Tannerman the abductor to receive messages from the third accomplis, the getaway driver.  Messages if someone was coming and pass these messages on to the lifter to scarper.  The third accomplis being on the fag-end balcony of block 6 opposite.  Torch messages probably - flashes.
5)  To give the false impression that Madeleine had climbed out of the window herself and gain time.  Possibly also not be investigated at all.
6)  To take the eye away from the fact that the front door [in blackness and hidden] was almost certainly used.  If a key had been "borrowed" or lent by an employee of OC, then the group would not want that discovered.
7)  To allow in a little natural light from the limited light outside, or additional light from the torch of Tannerman outside the window.  The lifter would not wish to switch the bedroom light on .  Also the lifter would want his/her hands free to carry Madeleine

There are other things but I cannot remember them at present.

An emergency exit. Why? The front recessed door is only metres away from her bed. That is all nonsense. How long were they staying for  with all the movements that night

[sadie]

An emergency exit. Why? The front recessed door is only metres away from her bed.

I thought that you considerd yourself a sleuth.

The lifter would not want to show him/herself to the family by necessarily going across the sitting room to exit by the Front Door.

Better, altho difficult, to slink out by the window.

[pathfinder73]

I thought that you considerd yourself a sleuth.

The lifter would not want to show him/herself to the family by necessarily going across the sitting room to exit by the Front Door.

Better, altho difficult, to slink out by the window.

No by being quick you don't get caught not wasting time and opening noisy shutters with kids sleeping in that room. Madness!

[Brietta]

No by being quick you don't get caught not wasting time and opening noisy shutters with kids sleeping in that room. Madness!

Not nearly as mad as quickly entering ... quickly lifting a child ... quickly exiting the bedroom carrying the child ... and walking into the child's father in the sitting room ... your quickness leaving you with no escape route.

[pathfinder73]

Not nearly as mad as quickly entering ... quickly lifting a child ... quickly exiting the bedroom carrying the child ... and walking into the child's father in the sitting room ... your quickness leaving you with no escape route.

It takes 10 seconds. More likely getting caught trying to raise shutters as somebody may hear it, kids wake up or see from the car park  The window opened from the inside is staged and leads to one place.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Not nearly as mad as quickly entering ... quickly lifting a child ... quickly exiting the bedroom carrying the child ... and walking into the child's father in the sitting room ... your quickness leaving you with no escape route.

Exactly! They would need to be pretty damn fast... they only had a few minutes to break in- steal child inbetween Gerrys visit and JTs sighting... so fast no time to blink really! hahahaha as if!

[pegasus]

... to receive messages from the third accomplice, the getaway driver.  Messages if someone was coming and pass these messages on to the lifter to scarper.  The third accomplice being on the fag-end balcony of block 6 opposite.  Torch messages probably - flashes....

There is no direct line of sight from that window to that balcony so you need a fourth accomplice in the car park holding a mirror.

[Brietta]

There is no direct line of sight from that window to that balcony so you need a fourth accomplice in the car park holding a mirror.

The plan if there was one would have been a simple one ... although there would definitely have been a vehicle involved I doubt it would have been parked in block 5 apartment.

[pegasus]

"after Madeleine disappeared I checked some of the windows in our apartment and they weren’t locked"
DW rogatory http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

[pegasus]

"we didn't ever check the window ... we assumed it was sort of locked"
FP rogatory re 5G child bedroom http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm