Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[ShiningInLuz]

...

Do you know of any of the employees being questioned about the availability of the keys to the apartment blocks ... who had access to them and what sort of security was in place regarding them?

...

The number of employees with access to keys is problematic because there were so many. Whilst other complexes in Luz used electronic cards (changeable) the OC used physical keys (non-changeable).

So who had access?  OC reception staff and management.  Cleaners, who got to hang on to the keys for the whole day.  Maintenance staff (tougher this one as they seemed to work in pairs).  And Mark Warner staff (so they could set up cots in advance of arrival).

Whether it happened this way or not, there are many aspects of security at the OC which are open to question.

[pegasus]

The burglar at 5G in april2007 IMO entered through the only burglar-accessible window - the window on the open first floor walk way just before 5G front door - (and we know he exited through the same window).

Here is some more evidence for that.
4G is almost identical to 5G.
The identical window at 4G in 2007 has an added steel security barrier so that it is impossible to get in through the window. The only possible reason for this is IMO that there had once been a burglary through this 4G window and the steel security barrier was added to prevent it happening again.
This means that entry through the same window at 5G, where there was no added steel security barrier, was very possible, and probable.
Proof http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8?t=46m37s

[pegasus]

Another clue that opening 5A child bedroom shutter and window from outside was possible - it now has steel security bars added.

[pegasus]

Also the gate changed to full height, and garden changed.

[misty]

The burglar at 5G in april2007 IMO entered through the only burglar-accessible window - the window on the open first floor walk way just before 5G front door - (and we know he exited through the same window).

Here is some more evidence for that.
4G is almost identical to 5G.
The identical window at 4G in 2007 has an added steel security barrier so that it is impossible to get in through the window. The only possible reason for this is IMO that there had once been a burglary through this 4G window and the steel security barrier was added to prevent it happening again.
This means that entry through the same window at 5G, where there was no added steel security barrier, was very possible, and probable.
Proof http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8?t=46m37s

Do you think the shutter in 5G was in its lowered position prior to the attempted burglary?
Do you believe all easily accessible windows in Blocks 4 & 5 had lowered shutters on the night of the 3rd?

[pegasus]

Do you think the shutter in 5G was in its lowered position prior to the attempted burglary? ...

Good question, time to check what time of day the April 2007 attempted burglary of 5G (Fenn) was.

[pegasus]

... Do you believe all easily accessible windows in Blocks 4 & 5 had lowered shutters on the night of the 3rd?

probably yes.

[mercury]

Good question, time to check what time of day the April 2007 attempted burglary of 5G (Fenn) was.

I remember reading somewhere (sorry no link) that most burglaries happened during the day when tourists were out rather than at night...opportunistic burglars will not have differentiated between a tourist Mark Warner apartment and a privately owned and resided one in IMO

[misty]

I remember reading somewhere (sorry no link) that most burglaries happened during the day when tourists were out rather than at night...opportunistic burglars will not have differentiated between a tourist Mark Warner apartment and a privately owned and resided one in IMO

Do you think an opportunistic burglar would have selected an apartment in a block where people were in & out of the car park every 10 minutes?

[mercury]

Do you think an opportunistic burglar would have selected an apartment in a block where people were in & out of the car park every 10 minutes?

Which apt was that

[misty]

Which apt was that

5a in Block 5 on the night of the 3rd.

[mercury]

5a in Block 5 on the night of the 3rd.

I was talking about  daytime burglaries

Any night time opportunist by definition wouldn't have watched before attempting...and yes strangely I agree with you, no burglar or abductor would strike if people were walking around every ten minutes

[sadie]

I was talking about  daytime burglaries

Any night time opportunist by definition wouldn't have watched before attempting...and yes strangely I agree with you, no burglar or abductor would strike if people were walking around every ten minutes

It wasn't an opportunist abduction, was it?

Seems Madeleine was targetted, the family watched beforehand .... and then the whole abduction planned in minute detail, with watchers during the event.  Most probably it was planned that the abductor/s went in immediately after Madeleine was checked  .... and quite probably the visits by the other parents were logged and assessed too.

To find the safest time.


There may have been two attempts, with initially a scenario such as I outline below:
1.   I wonder if Matt listening at the window was taken as a check and at that point an attempt was started.  Maybe someone had gone in before Gerry arrived soon after Matt, maybe s/he was actually in when Gerry arrived, maybe s/he had quickly departed via the front door as the watcher reported him coming?


We dont know, do we?


But what is very likely IMO
2.  is that when Gerry left, the abductor was already on site ready  .... and  when the watcher signalled to go in ....  a very sharp entrance was made via the front door, then the window was opened for various reasons including escape in an emergency .... Madeleine was sedated, then scooped up and away via the front door agian.


I believe that the lifter, someone who Madeleine knew, passed her over the pathway wall to Tannerman.


The door was opened and closed using the key alone quite probably.


All IMO, but totally plausible.

[Benice]

It wasn't an opportunist abduction, was it?

Seems Madeleine was targetted, the family watched beforehand .... and then the whole abduction planned in minute detail, with watchers during the event.  Most probably it was planned that the abductor/s went in immediately after Madeleine was checked  .... and quite probably the visits by the other parents were logged and assessed too.

To find the safest time.


There may have been two attempts, with initially a scenario such as I outline below:
1.   I wonder if Matt listening at the window was taken as a check and at that point an attempt was started.  Maybe someone had gone in before Gerry arrived soon after Matt, maybe s/he was actually in when Gerry arrived, maybe s/he had quickly departed via the front door as the watcher reported him coming?


We dont know, do we?


But what is very likely IMO
2.  is that when Gerry left, the abductor was already on site ready  .... and  when the watcher signalled to go in ....  a very sharp entrance was made via the front door, then the window was opened for various reasons including escape in an emergency .... Madeleine was sedated, then scooped up and away via the front door agian.


I believe that the lifter, someone who Madeleine knew, passed her over the pathway wall to Tannerman.


The door was opened and closed using the key alone quite probably.


All IMO, but totally plausible.

I think that's a very credible theory Sadie.  Once they knew that everyone was seated at the restaurant and thus safely out of the way  - they may have calculated that Matt's 'outside' check meant that no more checks would be happening for a while at 5a.   What they didn't know is that Gerry would decide to make his check at 9.05.    If it happened how you suggest then that could explain the door being more open than Gerry remembered leaving it.

I've also wondered whether the empty apartment next door but one may have been used to hide in prior to the abduction.  It would be an ideal place as it was only a few seconds walk away from 5A - and with a view of the tapas restaurant.

I don't know how thoroughly that empty apartment was searched or if it was examined by the forensic bods.

I do tend to think that once she was abducted - Madeleine was immediately taken away by car.    Whether it was to a destination miles away or somewhere else in PdL - I don't know.



   

[pathfinder73]

There wasn't any time as Gerry left as soon as Matt returned (great watchers LOL) and there was no open window at 9:30. What key? What car? Only one we know had a key and then he didn't  You can't make up evidence to suit your theory.