Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[mercury]

Who saw the window open? You still haven't answered that question.

NOBODY

Except allegedly KM..

[Benice]

Exactly they were not called straight away. Call the police or tamper with shutters &%+((£ Tampering with shutters won.

But how would Gerry know beforehand that the police were not going to be called straightaway?   Someone outside of the group could have called them as soon as the alarm was raised.   How did he know Mrs Fenn wouldn't immediately call them or Reception on hearing the commotion?  How did he know in advance that there was not going to be a couple of waiters at their table when Kate raised the alarm - who might have immediately called the police - or neighbours or other passing holidaymakers? 

How could he know there wasn't one - or even more police cars in the area - who could be at the complex within minutes after he left?

How could he know in advance that he wasn't going to bump into any number of holiday makers or locals during the time he was openly carrying a dead body through the streets?   It wasn't as if it was in the dead of night when everyone was in bed.

How did he know in advance that when he returned and changed his clothing - none of the many people who were around by that time, would notice.

No-one in their right mind would devise a plan with so many unknown possible eventualities - all of which could be his downfall.     Especially when there were far simpler plans he could have adopted.

IMO your theory fails PF - because it is based on hindsight of events which Gerry could not possibly have foreseen at the time.

If the open window and shutters were planned by Kate and Gerry  to be the proof of an intruder - why did he close them before the police arrived?  That makes no sense.

[Alfred R Jones]

But how would Gerry know beforehand that the police were not going to be called straightaway?   Someone outside of the group could have called them as soon as the alarm was raised.   How did he know Mrs Fenn wouldn't immediately call them or Reception on hearing the commotion?  How did he know in advance that there was not going to be a couple of waiters at their table when Kate raised the alarm - who might have immediately called the police - or neighbours or other passing holidaymakers? 

How could he know there wasn't one - or even more police cars in the area - who could be at the complex within minutes after he left?

How could he know in advance that he wasn't going to bump into any number of holiday makers or locals during the time he was openly carrying a dead body through the streets?   It wasn't as if it was in the dead of night when everyone was in bed.

How did he know in advance that when he returned and changed his clothing - none of the many people who were around by that time, would notice.

No-one in their right mind would devise a plan with so many unknown possible eventualities - all of which could be his downfall.     Especially when there were far simpler plans he could have adopted.

IMO your theory fails PF - because it is based on hindsight of events which Gerry could not possibly have foreseen at the time.

If the open window and shutters were planned by Kate and Gerry  to be the proof of an intruder - why did he close them before the police arrived?  That makes no sense.

There's too much logical thinking going on in that post, careful now!!

[stephen25000]

But how would Gerry know beforehand that the police were not going to be called straightaway?   Someone outside of the group could have called them as soon as the alarm was raised.   How did he know Mrs Fenn wouldn't immediately call them or Reception on hearing the commotion?  How did he know in advance that there was not going to be a couple of waiters at their table when Kate raised the alarm - who might have immediately called the police - or neighbours or other passing holidaymakers? 

How could he know there wasn't one - or even more police cars in the area - who could be at the complex within minutes after he left?

How could he know in advance that he wasn't going to bump into any number of holiday makers or locals during the time he was openly carrying a dead body through the streets?   It wasn't as if it was in the dead of night when everyone was in bed.

How did he know in advance that when he returned and changed his clothing - none of the many people who were around by that time, would notice.

No-one in their right mind would devise a plan with so many unknown possible eventualities - all of which could be his downfall.     Especially when there were far simpler plans he could have adopted.

IMO your theory fails PF - because it is based on hindsight of events which Gerry could not possibly have foreseen at the time.

If the open window and shutters were planned by Kate and Gerry  to be the proof of an intruder - why did he close them before the police arrived?  That makes no sense.

A great deal of your supposition depends on whether the mccanns told the truth.


That my dear has not been tested in court.

[Benice]

A great deal of your supposition depends on whether the mccanns told the truth.


That my dear has not been tested in court.

Which part of my post is  'supposition' ?   

[stephen25000]

Which part of my post is  'supposition' ?

Read my last post.

[Benice]

Read my last post.

I have - and am still no clearer.  Please point out the 'suppositions' in my post.

[stephen25000]

I have - and am still no clearer.  Please point out the 'suppositions' in my post.

That's simple.

You presume the mccanns told the truth.

[Benice]

That's simple.

You presume the mccanns told the truth.

My post was related entirely to Pathfinder's theory on how and when a body was removed from 5a and by whom - and questioned it's practicality and credibility.

What has any of that got to do with who did or didn't tell the truth?   It has no bearing on my post whatsoever.  We are talking about a suggested theory.

Even though I don't accept PF's theory.  At least he has got one.   Maybe you should give us your theory on how a body could be disposed of from 5A - instead of constantly trying to deflect attention away from any post you don't like - but can't dispute. 

[stephen25000]

My post was related entirely to Pathfinder's theory on how and when a body was removed from 5a and by whom - and questioned it's practicality and credibility.

What has any of that got to do with who did or didn't tell the truth?   It has no bearing on my post whatsoever.  We are talking about a suggested theory.

Even though I don't accept PF's theory.  At least he has got one.   Maybe you should give us your theory on how a body could be disposed of from 5A - instead of constantly trying to deflect attention away from any post you don't like - but can't dispute.

I have 2 possibilities in that regard, but after all, I would not wish to post potentially libellous posts on here, would I.

That's not including the theory that Angelo believes in, which certainly has merit.

[Benice]

I have 2 possibilities in that regard, but after all, I would not wish to post potentially libellous posts on here, would I.

That's not including the theory that Angelo believes in, which certainly has merit.

As long as you make it clear it is only a theory and not something you are claiming as fact - then it won't be libellous IMO.   Pathfinder has managed to do it (and according to you - apparently Angelo has too) - so what are you waiting for?

Let's debate your theories.

[stephen25000]

As long as you make it clear it is only a theory and not something you are claiming as fact - then it won't be libellous IMO.   Pathfinder has managed to do it (and according to you - apparently Angelo has too) - so what are you waiting for?

Let's debate your theories.

Well, i believe you know the first part already.

So let's start first with the accidental death scenario and why the abduction scenario doesn't add up.

Then we can proceed from there.

[Brietta]

But how would Gerry know beforehand that the police were not going to be called straightaway?   Someone outside of the group could have called them as soon as the alarm was raised.   How did he know Mrs Fenn wouldn't immediately call them or Reception on hearing the commotion?  How did he know in advance that there was not going to be a couple of waiters at their table when Kate raised the alarm - who might have immediately called the police - or neighbours or other passing holidaymakers? 

How could he know there wasn't one - or even more police cars in the area - who could be at the complex within minutes after he left?

How could he know in advance that he wasn't going to bump into any number of holiday makers or locals during the time he was openly carrying a dead body through the streets?   It wasn't as if it was in the dead of night when everyone was in bed.

How did he know in advance that when he returned and changed his clothing - none of the many people who were around by that time, would notice.

No-one in their right mind would devise a plan with so many unknown possible eventualities - all of which could be his downfall.     Especially when there were far simpler plans he could have adopted.

IMO your theory fails PF - because it is based on hindsight of events which Gerry could not possibly have foreseen at the time.

If the open window and shutters were planned by Kate and Gerry  to be the proof of an intruder - why did he close them before the police arrived?  That makes no sense.

I wonder why these alleged master criminals didn't just arrange a pillow under Madeleine's covers and 'discover' her missing and the open window in the morning?  That would have given them so much more time to work on 'staging' the event ... maybe actually 'jemmying' the shutters.

[Benice]

Well, i believe you know the first part already.

So let's start first with the accidental death scenario and why the abduction scenario doesn't add up.

Then we can proceed from there.

Off you go then.   Describe what you think may have happened. 

Unfortunately I have to go out shortly - but will be back later to join in the debate.

[pathfinder73]

But how would Gerry know beforehand that the police were not going to be called straightaway?   Someone outside of the group could have called them as soon as the alarm was raised.   How did he know Mrs Fenn wouldn't immediately call them or Reception on hearing the commotion?  How did he know in advance that there was not going to be a couple of waiters at their table when Kate raised the alarm - who might have immediately called the police - or neighbours or other passing holidaymakers? 

How could he know there wasn't one - or even more police cars in the area - who could be at the complex within minutes after he left?

How could he know in advance that he wasn't going to bump into any number of holiday makers or locals during the time he was openly carrying a dead body through the streets?   It wasn't as if it was in the dead of night when everyone was in bed.

How did he know in advance that when he returned and changed his clothing - none of the many people who were around by that time, would notice.

No-one in their right mind would devise a plan with so many unknown possible eventualities - all of which could be his downfall.     Especially when there were far simpler plans he could have adopted.

IMO your theory fails PF - because it is based on hindsight of events which Gerry could not possibly have foreseen at the time.

If the open window and shutters were planned by Kate and Gerry  to be the proof of an intruder - why did he close them before the police arrived?  That makes no sense.

My theory doesn't fail when you are working from the correct timeline not the fantasy one of 10:03 going to check. You are correct he didn't know when the police would be called but he first made sure everyone had split up to search for her and not call the police but Kate could have called them being alone in the apartment. Who saw him examining shutters? Answer the question.