Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 414673 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1755 on: September 14, 2015, 08:58:27 AM »
Marks around the shutter left stop.
The two stops probably provide a good way to start raising shutter from outside.

The shutters don't count as they were tampered with. Marks on the actual window to open?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1756 on: September 14, 2015, 09:25:30 AM »
lots of marks in themselves can't be evidence of an intruder...anyone or anything can cause a mark

Unless it is known the outside of the window and shutters were clean of all marks directly previously to 3 May
And the police files make no mention of prints partial or otherwise on the outside of the window which is the important bit

The three unidentified prints on the outside of the shutters (and any other marks you mention) are perfectly explained by three of the tapas group fiddling with the evidence that night.  Bye for now

Had the fingerprints been left by anyone from the McCann party or any one who was known to have been in the vicinity of the apartment after the alarm was raised ... they would have been identified as such ... for the simple reason prints and DNA samples had been taken for elimination purposes from all of them.

One then has to wonder why there were any foreign prints there at all.  Why would anyone touch the exterior of the shutters when the normal means of opening them was from the inside?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1757 on: September 14, 2015, 09:45:51 AM »
Had the fingerprints been left by anyone from the McCann party or any one who was known to have been in the vicinity of the apartment after the alarm was raised ... they would have been identified as such ... for the simple reason prints and DNA samples had been taken for elimination purposes from all of them.

One then has to wonder why there were any foreign prints there at all.  Why would anyone touch the exterior of the shutters when the normal means of opening them was from the inside?

Shutter installers and maintenance people for starters and then maybe cleaners.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1758 on: September 14, 2015, 10:00:50 AM »
Shutter installers and maintenance people for starters and then maybe cleaners.

All of whom would have been subject to the diligences required by the investigation for elimination purposes.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1759 on: September 14, 2015, 10:04:15 AM »
All of whom would have been subject to the diligences required by the investigation for elimination purposes.


That wasn't the question you asked, but never mind.
Some of these people could have been transitory workers and not readily traceable.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1760 on: September 14, 2015, 10:31:09 AM »

That wasn't the question you asked, but never mind.
Some of these people could have been transitory workers and not readily traceable.

Perhaps, but if that were so I am sure the police would have pulled out all the stops to have them traced ... and although I believe Portugal had no national database up and running at the time, I believe there is reference in the files that they did check with those who had that advantage.

They had unidentified prints at a crime scene ... do you think they would have been remiss in trying to identify whose they were?

There would be a record that gardeners ... transitory workers ... plumbers etc carrying out work for apartments which the company managed on behalf of the owners would be easily traced ... and if not, why not?
Similarly, work commissioned by the owner would be known about.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1761 on: September 14, 2015, 10:45:25 AM »
Actually I'm not disputing any of what you say, I was merely answering your original question.
How they went about  investigating the prints is an entirely  different issue.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1762 on: September 14, 2015, 10:49:45 AM »
The shutters don't count as they were tampered with. Marks on the actual window to open?
There aren't enough photos.
Position would be on outside of east half of window near base, see videos by PB and Heri.

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1763 on: September 14, 2015, 10:56:27 AM »
Actually I'm not disputing any of what you say, I was merely answering your original question.
How they went about  investigating the prints is an entirely  different issue.

Your answer was one which would have been checked out by the investigators at the time ... transients, cleaners etc ... which is what I was saying about what I know of the follow up and the search with other law enforcement agencies for matches. None of which were forthcoming.
I don't know if previous occupants were asked about touching the outside of the shutters at any time.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1764 on: September 14, 2015, 12:19:12 PM »
Fingerprints at the apartment:
6 marks were of type and quality adequate to attempt identification, and all 6 were successfully identified (named).
All the other marks sampled were of wrong type or insufficient quality to attempt identification.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 12:31:16 AM by pegasus »

Offline mercury

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1765 on: September 15, 2015, 12:32:22 AM »
Had the fingerprints been left by anyone from the McCann party or any one who was known to have been in the vicinity of the apartment after the alarm was raised ... they would have been identified as such ... for the simple reason prints and DNA samples had been taken for elimination purposes from all of them.

One then has to wonder why there were any foreign prints there at all.  Why would anyone touch the exterior of the shutters when the normal means of opening them was from the inside?

No. the prints on  the shutter were inadequate, meaning they were partial only, so were not able to be matched to any on file

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

"Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered."
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 12:35:38 AM by mercury »

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1766 on: September 15, 2015, 12:38:46 AM »
In May 2007 absolutely no forensics or looking for child hand marks were done on the lounge window.

Offline misty

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1767 on: September 15, 2015, 01:06:44 AM »
In May 2007 absolutely no forensics or looking for child hand marks were done on the lounge window.

Too many marks from other hands for any discernible child palm prints?
Why didn't Madeleine turn on any additional lights if she fled her bedroom after hearing the noise of the shutters?

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1768 on: September 15, 2015, 02:11:26 AM »
Too many marks from other hands for any discernible child palm prints? ...(snip)
In May 2007 forensics seem to have totally ignored the lounge window - no reason to examine it.


Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1769 on: September 15, 2015, 02:12:22 AM »
(snip)... Why didn't Madeleine turn on any additional lights if she fled her bedroom after hearing the noise of the shutters?
In that hypothetical situation, there was already a light on in lounge (and that would slightly illuminate other rooms)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 02:21:51 AM by pegasus »