Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pegasus]

The hypothesis that, awoken by someone outside messing with shutter, the child very sensibly disappears from that bedroom into another room

1. GM check, sees child in bedroom, puts bedroom door in almost shut position.
2. Sometime in this interval, child opens door and goes to another room and does not return.
3. MO check, sees bedroom door is open, does not see child.

[pathfinder73]

The hypothesis that, awoken by someone outside messing with shutter, the child very sensibly disappears from that bedroom into another room

1. GM check, sees child in bedroom, puts bedroom door in almost shut position.
2. Sometime in this interval, child opens door and goes to another room and does not return.
3. MO check, sees bedroom door is open, does not see child.

MO didn't see the child is correct and he didn't hear a sound. The child knew Matt - come on chase me and be a monster. Maddy was very loud according to everyone including Fenn on TUE but not on 3 May - not even a whisper!

[pegasus]

MO didn't see the child is correct and he didn't hear a sound. ..(snip)

Actually MO did hear a sound when he entered the apartment. It's in the files Pathfinder.

[pegasus]

(snip) ... Maddy was very loud according to everyone including Fenn on TUE but not on 3 May - not even a whisper!

A child hiding does not make a sound Pathfinder.
I've already given you some past cases - home alone, attempted burglary, hiding, and guess what, no noise.

[mercury]

Assuming all 3 witness accounts are accurate, the bedroom door was opened by child twice (not three times) IMO.
Once before GM check (child opens door and leaves bedroom then returns to bedroom, probably a simple toilet trip)
Once after GM check but before MO check (child opens door and leaves bedroom but does not return to that bedroom).

That doesn't seem to take into consideration that MO noticed nothing nothing connected to  an open window and shutter.

[mercury]

Were the curtains open as in early statements or closed and whooshed as in later ones? Was Madeleine on top of the covers because it was hot like Gerry said or under them because it was cold like Kate said?

No one seems to ever want to  address this much

One PT police statement saying she found the curtains were open, one English statement stating she ran over to the window and opened the curtains and the TV appearances saying the curtains blew open themselves, the second version being the one that sticks out as the first and last can be deemed to be similar in effect

[pegasus]

That doesn't seem to take into consideration that MO noticed nothing nothing connected to  an open window and shutter.

Like MO, KM initially noticed nothing connected to an open window and shutter.

[mercury]

From the star chart at home we know that Madeleine had been weaned off getting up during the night to go into her parents bedroom.

From her question to Kate it is possible the conditioning had been very effective.

She asked why her mother hadn't come ... she did not ask "Where were you?"

This is incorrect. KM has stated in TV interviews that Madeleine said "where were you when Sean and I cried"

Just for info.

[misty]

Can anyone clarify the position of the twins' cots, please? MO said he could see both twins breathing through the side mesh - so were they both placed parallel to the beds?

[mercury]

Like MO, KM initially noticed nothing connected to an open window and shutter.

Ah, OK then, thanks for clarifying, we must conclude then  the wind was totally still  at 9.30 and at 10, both window and shutter was open, curtains were dead still, and on a cold night no one noticed any chill at all, before  a gust appeared to open the curtains..something like that....

[pegasus]

This is incorrect. KM has stated in TV interviews that Madeleine said "where were you when Sean and I cried"

Just for info.

Yes, and it's odd, why are we never told, what was the parents' reply to the child's question?
A straight answer would have been "We were in a restaurant until about 11pm and then in a bar until about 11.45pm"

[pegasus]

I have just watched the entire Dispatches programme which Redblossom linked to another thread

Five experts  (  and they really  are experts )  analysed the three possible theories  :

That Madeleine woke and wandered

That she was abducted

That her parents were involved in her disappearance

What struck me was that the open window/shutter was only mentioned in relation to the third option  ( involvement of the parents  ) .  It was suggested that they were opened from the inside as a way of  'staging'  a crime

The experts offered no explanation for the open window/shutter in either of the two remaining theories  (  woke and wandered/ abduction )   because it played no part in the hypothesis they formulated in both scnarios

I am back to being convinced that there is no rational explanation for the open shutters  other  than that they were opened as part of the  staging of  a crime

I know  other explanations have been sought   ...  but that's the thing  ...  other explanations have to be 'imagined'

There is nothing about the window/shutters being opened from the inside that immediately  screams abduction   ...  on the contrary,  it is something that somehow has to be  'fitted in'  with abduction theory

I am in agreement with the experts on this matter

What the "woke and wandered" theory is missing, is a reason for waking that is drastic enough to cause the child to leave the apartment.
Would not someone opening the child's bedroom shutter and window from outside be sufficiently drastic?

[pegasus]

Ah, OK then, thanks for clarifying, we must conclude then  the wind was totally still  at 9.30 and at 10, both window and shutter was open, curtains were dead still, and on a cold night no one noticed any chill at all, before  a gust appeared to open the curtains..something like that....

KM did not notice the open window and shutter at first. She noticed them only after she moved the bedroom door to the almost closed position, causing the wind to slam it shut, then she opened it again, and this reopening caused the pressure change which made the curtains to blow in.
MO did not move the bedroom door to the almost closed position, therefore the door did not slam, therefore he did not reopen it, therefore the curtains did not blow in, and he did not notice that the window and shutter were open.

[mercury]

Yes, and it's odd, why are we never told, what was the parents' reply to the child's question?
A straight answer would have been "We were in a restaurant until about 11pm and then in a bar until about 11.45pm"

Well, they said they didn't know when this was, IE was it when they were having a bath?, and one day Madeleine came through to their room...was it then?
But yes, they never said what they replied with, just that "she dropped it and moved on"
oh and also they said  if she hadn't been abducted that "passing comment"  would never have crossed their minds again, but as we now know,due to the rogatory interviews, it did and in a big way

[mercury]

KM did not notice the open window and shutter at first. She noticed them only after she moved the bedroom door to the almost closed position, causing the wind to slam it shut, then she opened it again, and this reopening caused the pressure change which made the curtains to blow in.
MO did not move the bedroom door to the almost closed position, therefore the door did not slam, therefore he did not reopen it, therefore the curtains did not blow in, and he did not notice that the window and shutter were open.

So you are saying moving a door causes curtains to move??