Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[lordpookles]

I already posted the source which states that at about 9.30pm the childgate was "possibly open".
But even if it was open, that doesn't mean it was the child that opened it - for example it could be that not all checkers closed the childgate after their check.
IMO in a home-alone attempted-burglary situation a child would probably hide in another room (not go outside), and this is based on reading real cases where this has happened.

Make's sense, but how does she get out of the apartment? Through the already opened window?

[Carana]

Reading what LP says about Derren Brown and the time it would take to hypnotise someone making it unlikely ...  I know very little about hypnotism ... but is it possible to 'implant' a command word which a previously hypnotised person will react to, and also make a person forget they have been subject to hypnotism? (don't know if that is nonsense)

Madeleine could have been hypnotised on a previous night and been enticed to the window on command??

None of that appears to be necessary. It could be at any time, even while the person (adults in the examples I've watched) is perfectly awake.

I'm not convinced that that is a likely possibility as I'm only just exploring it. For the moment, it seems entirely possible. I also have a few thoughts against that hypothesis (or in between the two).

[pegasus]

None of that appears to be necessary. It could be at any time, even while the person (adults in the examples I've watched) is perfectly awake.

I'm not convinced that that is a likely possibility as I'm only just exploring it. For the moment, it seems entirely possible. I also have a few thoughts against that hypothesis (or in between the two).

IMO the only person in this case who has not been hypnotised was the child.
Unknowingly hypnotised into accepting unquestioningly two assumptions.

[Carana]

IMO the only person in this case who has not been hypnotised was the child.
Unknowingly hypnotised into accepting unquestioningly two assumptions.

I'm only just exploring this. If I find it hugely unlikely, I have no problem in discarding that possibility.

[Brietta]

The night they said she said they were crying. She forgot to do it on 3 May. So Tue, Wed crying then silence on Thurs. Yeah that makes perfect sense so now we have hypnotism. Tick tock  *&*%£

Certainly makes as much sense to me, if not more, than any of the wild notions promoted by the chief investigator who invested and destroyed so much of his credibility on them.

I recall you in particular posting in a derisory way about the door positioning and Madeleine being at first under the blankets on a night considered cool by her mother then later on top of the bedding when seen by her father.

Don't you think Misty's eminently sensible suggestion as to how this may have come about is worth a thought?

[pegasus]

I'm only just exploring this. If I find it hugely unlikely, I have no problem in discarding that possibility.

Yes. Which theory is 100% common-sense and which theory should be discarded?
A theory of a rogue hypnotist roaming PDL?
Or a theory based on the obvious deduction that the open bedroom door was caused by the child opening it to go to another room?

[mercury]

A theory of a rogue hypnotist roaming PDL?

Heard it all now (or maybe not)

ROTF

 *&*%£

sOmeone should call SY PDQ

[pathfinder73]

Certainly makes as much sense to me, if not more, than any of the wild notions promoted by the chief investigator who invested and destroyed so much of his credibility on them.

I recall you in particular posting in a derisory way about the door positioning and Madeleine being at first under the blankets on a night considered cool by her mother then later on top of the bedding when seen by her father.

Don't you think Misty's eminently sensible suggestion as to how this may have come about is worth a thought?

I've never said she was in bed on top under or whatever.

[G-Unit]

IMO the people at 5K were not sitting out on balcony for any length of time, but just went out on balcony very briefly then went to bed.

"  ...  they had returned to their apartment at around 9.15pm after an evening out.
'We went into the apartment, I went out on the balcony, looking over at the tapas bar, and remarked ... that there were so many people in there eating and drinking'  ... "
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/holidaymakers-tell-of-late-night-search-for-madeleine-309331.html

So if the main event happened about 9.25pm, it's possible the people at 5K were no longer on balcony.

They didn't see Gerry, Jane, Jeremy or the abductor either it seems. I wonder which friend woke them? Fiona was with Kate, Rachael and Jane were minding their children and Dianne was minding Fiona's children.

We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say a little girl had been abducted. Those were the words she used.
https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/

[mercury]

Certainly makes as much sense to me, if not more, than any of the wild notions promoted by the chief investigator who invested and destroyed so much of his credibility on them.

I recall you in particular posting in a derisory way about the door positioning and Madeleine being at first under the blankets on a night considered cool by her mother then later on top of the bedding when seen by her father.

Don't you think Misty's eminently sensible suggestion as to how this may have come about is worth a thought?

It is worth a thought up to the point where it is hard to tell, seeing as KM "thought" she was under the blankets because it was cold but Gerry said she was on top of the blankets because it was hot a)on leaving her to go out and b) on looking in on her on his check

[Brietta]

I've never said she was in bed on top under or whatever.

I'm not going to look for it PF ... but when postulating your theory and the permutations and significance of the door positions you ridiculed just that.  Seems I have a clearer memory of your postings than you do.

Misty has been clever enough to spot what everyone else missed about the relevance of Madeleine being seen on top of the covers rather than under them ... I think you see it is a consideration too.

[pegasus]

It is worth a thought up to the point where it is hard to tell, seeing as KM "thought" she was under the blankets because it was cold but Gerry said she was on top of the blankets because it was hot a)on leaving her to go out and b) on looking in on her on his check

The last time KM saw the child was at about 7.15pm (at bedroom light out time).
GM saw the child at about 7.15pm, and at about 9.05pm.
He did not see the child at 8.30pm - he just listened at the bedroom door before going out, with no visual check.   
(edited)

[mercury]

The last time KM saw the child was at about 7.30pm (at bedroom light out time).
GM saw the child at about 7.30pm, and at about 9.05pm.
(He did not see the child at 8.30pm - he just listened at the bedroom door before going out, with no visual check).

So you're assuming the child covered themselves after 8 30 even though KM already said she thought they were covered ?

[slartibartfast]

I'm not going to look for it PF ... but when postulating your theory and the permutations and significance of the door positions you ridiculed just that.  Seems I have a clearer memory of your postings than you do.

Misty has been clever enough to spot what everyone else missed about the relevance of Madeleine being seen on top of the covers rather than under them ... I think you see it is a consideration too.

I would suggest if you accuse a poster of stating something you should cite the post or delete your accusation.

[Brietta]

I would suggest if you accuse a poster of stating something you should cite the post or delete your accusation.

Fair enough ... there are quite a few ... but here is one for starters ...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=18.0




Sorry for some reason the link doesn't appear to be linking as it should ... but the conversation went as follows ...

42  Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« on: September 17, 2015, 08:11:58 AM »

Quote from: Brietta on September 16, 2015, 11:50:35 PM
She would have been groggy and sleepy ... and curious about the noise bearing in mind she probably hadn't heard the blind being raised before.  Why would she have thought there was danger and she was in need of assistance?  There is a probability she approached the window.

If she had run as you think she may ... why did she vanish?

To which Pathfinder replied

Were the curtains open as in early statements or closed and whooshed as in later ones? Was Madeleine on top of the covers because it was hot like Gerry said or under them because it was cold like Kate said?

Which is as I claimed in my original post ...

"I recall you in particular posting in a derisory way about the door positioning and Madeleine being at first under the blankets on a night considered cool by her mother then later on top of the bedding when seen by her father."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1868.msg274093#msg274093