UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on December 19, 2018, 11:23:05 PM
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According to the Star tomorrow the Met are going to look forever.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/749092/maddie-madeleine-mccann-investigation-kate-and-gerry-police-cressida-dick
Maddie hunt will NEVER stop until she’s found – UK top cop’s new pledge to McCanns
MADDIE McCann detectives will not give up the hunt even though cash is so tight more officers could lose their jobs, Britain's top police chief has said.
Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick said the controversial Operation Grange inquiry into the youngster's 2007 disappearance in Portugal will go on until it “has reached its conclusion”.
She revealed she was part of the team that set up the investigation eight years ago following a personal plea by Madeleine's doctor parents Kate and Gerry to then prime minister David Cameron.
Then an assistant commissioner in the Met, Dick said she had supported the move by the London-based force to launch a probe into the mystery even though it appeared to have no jurisdiction.
Since then Scotland Yard has spent nearly £12million of taxpayers' cash on the inquiry but no-one has been charged.
In November the Home Office granted the force an extra £150,000 to continue the probe until at least April next year.
The move sparked criticism from the Police Federation and some former Met officers who argued the money would be better spent tackling London's record number of homicides, knife crime and terrorism.
The commissioner said she understood their concerns but felt the Madeleine investigation was too important to shelve and she had set no time limit on it.
Dick said: “I was there when it was set up originally.
“I remember when this piece of work was started and why.
“I was an AC at the time.
“I can understand why some people may feel differently but I think it is quite right that we should continue until it has reached its conclusion.”
Dick admitted the Met was still short of cash despite Home Secretary Sajid Javid last week pledging an extra £1bn to forces nationwide.
The commissioner said the Met could benefit from an extra £84m if London mayor Sadiq Khan chose to generate the maximum amount permissible via council tax rises.
But she admitted that may not be enough to save officers' jobs following years of cutbacks.
However she said that would not impact on Operation Grange.
“I am quite happy it should continue until we find out what happened or we have exhausted all possible lines of inquiry,” she said.
“It's not a huge amount of money and it's not large number of officers.''
Referring to the force's determination to trace and bring to justice the poisoners of Salisbury spy Sergie Skripal she added: ``We never give up in the Met.
“We never have.
“We never forget.”
The news will come as a massive boost to Madeleine's parents who earlier this year had feared it could shelved and they would have to fund private detectives to continue the search.
Then-three-year-old Madeleine vanished from the family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz 11 years ago while her parents dined with pals in a nearby tapas bar.
Portuguese police archived the case as `unsolved' in 2008.
They are now working alongside Met detectives in a bid to determine what happened.
Last month it was revealed both forces were probing if Madeleine had come to harm after walking out of the apartment in a bid to find her parents.
Until then the Met thought she either disturbed burglars or was abducted.
The McCanns continue to believe she was snatched from her bed by an intruder and may still be alive.
Ms Dick declined to discuss “operational details”.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/749092/maddie-madeleine-mccann-investigation-kate-and-gerry-police-cressida-dick
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According to the Star tomorrow the Met are going to look forever.
Oh dear, cue gnashing of teeth.
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Let’s hope Kate’s Christmas message this year refelects her gratefulness for the effort the Met are going to.
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According to the Star tomorrow the Met are going to look forever.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/749092/maddie-madeleine-mccann-investigation-kate-and-gerry-police-cressida-dick
Cressida Dick said:
"Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick said the controversial Operation Grange inquiry into the youngster's 2007 disappearance in Portugal will go on until it “has reached its conclusion”"
Spot the difference.
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Cressida Dick said:
"Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick said the controversial Operation Grange inquiry into the youngster's 2007 disappearance in Portugal will go on until it “has reached its conclusion”"
Spot the difference.
That's very good news.
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That's very good news.
Excellent news
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That's very good news.
Indeed it is.
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Round Two. Seconds Out.
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I've always said it would go on. How could it not with what they know.
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I've always said it would go on. How could it not with what they know.
One question though. Is it up to Cressida Dick or the Home Secretary to make any decision about continuing and ultimately ending Operation Grange. Would the Metropolitan Police continue if the HO pulled special funding?
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Excellent news
It is. It may mean that the net is closing in on the perpetrator(s).
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It is. It may mean that the net is closing in on the perpetrator(s).
Let's hope so... Tik tok
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One question though. Is it up to Cressida Dick or the Home Secretary to make any decision about continuing and ultimately ending Operation Grange. Would the Metropolitan Police continue if the HO pulled special funding?
I was more interested in which was correct.
The Star saying it will go on "for ever" suggesting that OG hasn't a clue where it's at, or Cressida Dick saying "until it reaches a conclusion" which cannot mean for ever....... (SNAFU)...........*%87
Faites vos jeux.
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I was more interested in which was correct.
The Star saying it will go on "for ever" suggesting that OG hasn't a clue where it's at, or Cressida Dick saying "until it reaches a conclusion" which cannot mean for ever....... (SNAFU)...........*%87
Faites vos jeux.
Faithlilly used the words “forever”, no one else did afaik.
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I was more interested in which was correct.
The Star saying it will go on "for ever" suggesting that OG hasn't a clue where it's at, or Cressida Dick saying "until it reaches a conclusion" which cannot mean for ever....... (SNAFU)...........*%87
Faites vos jeux.
I think it's, faithlilly who used the phrase.... So who do we believe...... Faith or Cressida
(SBLAC)
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Maybe Faithlilly did say forever.
It does not detract from the Star headline being at variance with what Ms Dick said.
So whadda yer want.
Faithlilly's version
The Star version
or
Ms Dicks version.
In your alacrity to discredit Faithlilly you ask whom should we believe Ms Dick or Faithlilly.
Well I'd go with Ms Dick which boots out the Star headline.
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Maybe Faithlilly did say forever.
It does not detract from the Star headline being at variance with what Ms Dick said.
So whadda yer want.
Faithlilly's version
The Star version
or
Ms Dicks version.
In your alacrity to discredit Faithlilly you ask whom should we believe Ms Dick or Faithlilly.
Well I'd go with Ms Dick which boots out the Star headline.
Have you only just realised headlines can be misleading... It's happened many times
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Maybe Faithlilly did say forever.
It does not detract from the Star headline being at variance with what Ms Dick said.
So whadda yer want.
Faithlilly's version
The Star version
or
Ms Dicks version.
In your alacrity to discredit Faithlilly you ask whom should we believe Ms Dick or Faithlilly.
Well I'd go with Ms Dick which boots out the Star headline.
Pedantics!
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Maybe Faithlilly did say forever.
It does not detract from the Star headline being at variance with what Ms Dick said.
So whadda yer want.
Faithlilly's version
The Star version
or
Ms Dicks version.
In your alacrity to discredit Faithlilly you ask whom should we believe Ms Dick or Faithlilly.
Well I'd go with Ms Dick which boots out the Star headline.
Since when has anyone ever given credibility to a headline from the Daily Star fgs?!
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Since when has anyone ever given credibility to a headline from the Daily Star fgs?!
One well known contributor cuts and pastes column kilometres from The Sun which is scarcely reliable.
Just testing to see which way the wind blows!
So stand down it was a false alarm from the Star.
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One well known contributor cuts and pastes column kilometres from The Sun which is scarcely reliable.
Just testing to see which way the wind blows!
So stand down it was a false alarm from the Star.
Headlines are just click bait, but there is usually some basis in truth to most of these articles even if they don’t reflect the content of the headlines, IMO.
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Since when has anyone ever given credibility to a headline from the Daily Star fgs?!
Did you mean FGS?
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Maybe Faithlilly did say forever.
It does not detract from the Star headline being at variance with what Ms Dick said.
So whadda yer want.
Faithlilly's version
The Star version
or
Ms Dicks version.
In your alacrity to discredit Faithlilly you ask whom should we believe Ms Dick or Faithlilly.
Well I'd go with Ms Dick which boots out the Star headline.
I did say forever Alice.
Hope that clears things up ?{)(**
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I did say forever Alice.
Hope that clears things up ?{)(**
Gotcha pre editing 8(0(*
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This is what she said - “I am quite happy it should continue until we find out what happened or we have exhausted all possible lines of inquiry,” she said.
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This is what she said - “I am quite happy it should continue until we find out what happened or we have exhausted all possible lines of inquiry,” she said.
Can yo provide the source for that, please ?
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Not sure why she bothers.
Your original post suggested that the McCanns are the only people the police should be concentrating on, which is probably considered libellous, not that I care one way or the other. I wonder if you have finally come to the realization that the McCanns are not about to be arrested and charged, nor are even suspects in this investigation... I realise you are ignoring me but nevertheless confident you will see this post. 8(>((
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According to the Star tomorrow the Met are going to look forever.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/749092/maddie-madeleine-mccann-investigation-kate-and-gerry-police-cressida-dick
Maddie hunt will NEVER stop until she’s found – UK top cop’s new pledge to McCanns
MADDIE McCann detectives will not give up the hunt even though cash is so tight more officers could lose their jobs, Britain's top police chief has said.
Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick said the controversial Operation Grange inquiry into the youngster's 2007 disappearance in Portugal will go on until it “has reached its conclusion”.
She revealed she was part of the team that set up the investigation eight years ago following a personal plea by Madeleine's doctor parents Kate and Gerry to then prime minister David Cameron.
Then an assistant commissioner in the Met, Dick said she had supported the move by the London-based force to launch a probe into the mystery even though it appeared to have no jurisdiction.
Since then Scotland Yard has spent nearly £12million of taxpayers' cash on the inquiry but no-one has been charged.
In November the Home Office granted the force an extra £150,000 to continue the probe until at least April next year.
The move sparked criticism from the Police Federation and some former Met officers who argued the money would be better spent tackling London's record number of homicides, knife crime and terrorism.
The commissioner said she understood their concerns but felt the Madeleine investigation was too important to shelve and she had set no time limit on it.
Dick said: “I was there when it was set up originally.
“I remember when this piece of work was started and why.
“I was an AC at the time.
“I can understand why some people may feel differently but I think it is quite right that we should continue until it has reached its conclusion.”
Dick admitted the Met was still short of cash despite Home Secretary Sajid Javid last week pledging an extra £1bn to forces nationwide.
The commissioner said the Met could benefit from an extra £84m if London mayor Sadiq Khan chose to generate the maximum amount permissible via council tax rises.
But she admitted that may not be enough to save officers' jobs following years of cutbacks.
However she said that would not impact on Operation Grange.
“I am quite happy it should continue until we find out what happened or we have exhausted all possible lines of inquiry,” she said.
“It's not a huge amount of money and it's not large number of officers.''
Referring to the force's determination to trace and bring to justice the poisoners of Salisbury spy Sergie Skripal she added: ``We never give up in the Met.
“We never have.
“We never forget.”
The news will come as a massive boost to Madeleine's parents who earlier this year had feared it could shelved and they would have to fund private detectives to continue the search.
Then-three-year-old Madeleine vanished from the family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz 11 years ago while her parents dined with pals in a nearby tapas bar.
Portuguese police archived the case as `unsolved' in 2008.
They are now working alongside Met detectives in a bid to determine what happened.
Last month it was revealed both forces were probing if Madeleine had come to harm after walking out of the apartment in a bid to find her parents.
Until then the Met thought she either disturbed burglars or was abducted.
The McCanns continue to believe she was snatched from her bed by an intruder and may still be alive.
Ms Dick declined to discuss “operational details”.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/749092/maddie-madeleine-mccann-investigation-kate-and-gerry-police-cressida-dick
I think Cressida Dick would be better off pursuing criminals in her own back yard instead of making promises she can't possibly keep about an investigation based in Portugal.
Note to Jerry Lawton et all. Operation Grange is an 'enquiry' and not an 'inquiry'. It could very well become one though.
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Google: "Inquire vs Enquire. ... The corresponding noun is enquiry or inquiry. Either spelling can be used, but many people prefer enquire and enquiry for the general sense of “ask”, and inquire and inquiry for a formal investigation: I enquired his name."
I have always wondered why it was spelt two ways.
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Google: "Inquire vs Enquire. ... The corresponding noun is enquiry or inquiry. Either spelling can be used, but many people prefer enquire and enquiry for the general sense of “ask”, and inquire and inquiry for a formal investigation: I enquired his name."
I have always wondered why it was spelt two ways.
The beauty of the English language old chap.
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Google: "Inquire vs Enquire. ... The corresponding noun is enquiry or inquiry. Either spelling can be used, but many people prefer enquire and enquiry for the general sense of “ask”, and inquire and inquiry for a formal investigation: I enquired his name."
I have always wondered why it was spelt two ways.
Can you "Inquire" about something? I genuinely don't know.
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Looks like CD is unpopular amongst sceptics for supporting Grange and adding to it's credibility
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Looks like CD is unpopular amongst sceptics for supporting Grange and adding to it's credibility
She shouldn't be even in that role,and I'm sure the De Menezes family would support me in that.
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She shouldn't be even in that role,and I'm sure the De Menezes family would support me in that.
Was she there when it happened?
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She shouldn't be even in that role,and I'm sure the De Menezes family would support me in that.
And anyone who supports the mccanns us attacked
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Was she there when it happened?
She was in charge of operations, she is forever linked to allowing an innocent man going about his lawful business be shot to death on the London underground.
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And anyone who supports the mccanns us attacked
If you hold her up has a role model then …………………….
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She was in charge of operations, she is forever linked to allowing an innocent man going about his lawful business be shot to death on the London underground.
The country was on high alert.. Almost in a state of war... I don't put any blame on her but on the terrorists who instilled terror into the capital...
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If you hold her up has a role model then …………………….
Cite for where I have promoted her as a role model
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She was in charge of operations, she is forever linked to allowing an innocent man going about his lawful business be shot to death on the London underground.
Was anyone charged with this?
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Was anyone charged with this?
The Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police was prosecuted because his force failed in their duty of care to Mr Menezes. A fine was imposed. Compensation was paid to his family.
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The Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police was prosecuted because his force failed in their duty of care to Mr Menezes. A fine was imposed. Compensation was paid to his family.
So not Cressida Dick then.
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So not Cressida Dick then.
She played her part in the debacle, otherwise there would have been no point in her being Gold Commander.
She had a superior officer , who ultimately carried the can for that day's activities.
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So what has the DeMenezes case to do with Grange... Apart from trying to discredit Dick..... Of course
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She played her part in the debacle, otherwise there would have been no point in her being Gold Commander.
She had a superior officer , who ultimately carried the can for that day's activities.
What did she do, exactly?
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So what has the DeMenezes case to do with Grange
Absolutely nothing except it may have something to say about how the Metropolitan Police were less than transparent about the events and the evidence.
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So what has the DeMenezes case to do with Grange... Apart from trying to discredit Dick..... Of course
Google led to this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/17/de-menezes-family-call-cressida-dick-barred-from-leading-met
"The family of an innocent man shot dead in an operation commanded by the woman tipped to be Britain’s next top police officer have said she should not be considered for the role."
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Google led to this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/17/de-menezes-family-call-cressida-dick-barred-from-leading-met
"The family of an innocent man shot dead in an operation commanded by the woman tipped to be Britain’s next top police officer have said she should not be considered for the role."
It's worth reading the whole article where Dick was exonerated for any blame..
Where DeMenezes, was positively ID by several as a known terrorist suicide bomber
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Absolutely nothing except it may have something to say about how the Metropolitan Police were less than transparent about the events and the evidence.
Have a look at the record of the PJ.... None of the Grange officers involved are convicted perjorers
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Have a look at the record of the PJ.... None of the Grange officers involved are convicted perjorers
Dick was in charge when Menezes was shot,nothing can escape that fact,now she's commissioner of the Met who happened to be involved in the Madeleine McCann case. No doubt some dick head (no pun intended) from the HO thought she was an ideal candidate.
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So what has the DeMenezes case to do with Grange... Apart from trying to discredit Dick..... Of course
She was in charge of the operation which lead to an innocent man being shot to death,her name is in the title of the thread,far from tenuous.
She's discredited by association imo.Grange will certainly not enhance it neither imo.
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Where DeMenezes, was positively ID by several as a known terrorist suicide bomber
Clearly flawed.
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Dick was in charge when Menezes was shot,nothing can escape that fact,now she's commissioner of the Met who happened to be involved in the Madeleine McCann case.
So what... She was exonerated of any blame
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Operation Grange will go on to it's conclusion.
Any further rude remarks about Cressida Dick will be deleted.
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Operation Grange will go on to it's conclusion.
Any further rude remarks about Cressida Dick will be deleted.
Of course it will,if it end's without finding out what happened its still a conclusion.
If you are referring to the piece you edited I made reference to the morons in the HO not Dick.
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Of course it will,if it end's without finding out what happened its still a conclusion.
If you are referring to the piece you edited I made reference to the morons in the HO not Dick.
As long as it's OK to refer to morons in the PJ
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As long as it's OK to refer to morons in the PJ
Not really. Do we have to do this, and follow like sheep?
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Not really. Do we have to do this, and follow like sheep?
Im asking because I think the PJ investigation was absolute disgrace...but it seems im not allowed to say so....so if barrier is allowed to refer to the Home office as morons we need to have some parity on the forum...obviously there isnt any......fair enough...
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What did she do, exactly?
She ordered the 'hard stop', which sanctioned shooting the suspect.
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She ordered the 'hard stop', which sanctioned shooting the suspect.
do you have a cite for that....reembering that according to recent sceptic posts newspaper reports are not reliable..although this is what the Guardian reports....She gave an order for the man to be prevented from entering Stockwell station, with Dick insisting she never ordered officers to shoot him.
she was also exhonerated by the investigation....which for obvious reasons brings a smile to my face
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She ordered the 'hard stop', which sanctioned shooting the suspect.
That statement is grossly libelous but as Dick is supporting grange it is acceptable by the mods on this forum
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She ordered the 'hard stop', which sanctioned shooting the suspect.
Who knows if that is true? What does "hard stop" mean anyway?
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Who knows if that is true? What does "hard stop" mean anyway?
its libellous unless it can be shown to be true.......libel is against forum rules...that becomes a problem when a moderator doesnt understand what libel is...Dick is being accused of giving the order to shoot De Menezes...if there is no proof that is true...then its libellous
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its libellous unless it can be shown to be true.......libel is against forum rules...that becomes a problem when a moderator doesnt understand what libel is...Dick is being accused of giving the order to shoot De Menezes...if there is no proof that is true...then its libellous
You never defined hard stop either. I could imagine at the time the police had the right to shoot.
You ask for proof, we can debate that. You can't expect a moderator to know the truthfulness of everything.
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The beauty of the English language old chap.
Indeed.
The correct pronunciation of "ghoti" for example.... 8(>((
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You never defined hard stop either. I could imagine at the time the police had the right to shoot.
You ask for proof, we can debate that.
hard stop is to shoot...without proof the post is libellous...no debate
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It's worth reading the whole article where Dick was exonerated for any blame..
Where DeMenezes, was positively ID by several as a known terrorist suicide bomber
In that case he was dead.....or not very successful. How many missions as a suicide bomber did he complete?
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In that case he was dead.....or not very successful. How many missions as a suicide bomber did he complete?
On the positive or negative side of none?
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In that case he was dead.....or not very successful. How many missions as a suicide bomber did he complete?
you need to read and understand the post...I said he was identified as...which he was...not that he was a suicide bomber
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In that case he was dead.....or not very successful. How many missions as a suicide bomber did he complete?
Indeed, depends on ones point of view,was the pursuance of a totally innocent individual and the shooting to death of said individual a roaring success,or was the pursuance of the same individual under the mistaken belief he was a terrorist and subsequent shooting to death of said individual a roaring success.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7764882.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7761652.stm
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Indeed, depends on ones point of view,was the pursuance of a totally innocent individual and the shooting to death of said individual a roaring success,or was the pursuance of the same individual under the mistaken belief he was a terrorist and subsequent shooting to death of said individual a roaring success.
so the armchair detectives become armchair judges...we rely on the police to keep us safe...thats exactly what the team were involved in...if you want to hang them when they make a misatke...as everyone makes a mistake ...then we will have no one to keep us safe
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you need to read and understand the post...I said he was identified as...which he was...not that he was a suicide bomber
I did read it and understand it. I found it as hilarious and nonsensical as most of your posts.
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its libellous unless it can be shown to be true.......libel is against forum rules...that becomes a problem when a moderator doesnt understand what libel is...Dick is being accused of giving the order to shoot De Menezes...if there is no proof that is true...then its libellous
Dick was cleared in court of any personal blame in the de Menezes case, yet McCann sceptics don’t accept her innocence, which IMO proved that had the McCanns been cleared in a court of law neither would that verdict have been accept by them either.
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Dick was cleared in court of any personal blame in the de Menezes case, yet McCann sceptics don’t accept her innocence, which IMO proved that had the McCanns been cleared in a court of law neither would that verdict have been accept by them either.
Great minds....from my earlier post..
she was also exhonerated by the investigation....which for obvious reasons brings a smile to my face
all this...the Mccanns have not been cleaared...it would not have made a scrap of difference if the SC had declared them totally innocent...teh sceptics know better
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so the armchair detectives become armchair judges...we rely on the police to keep us safe...thats exactly what the team were involved in...if you want to hang them when they make a misatke...as everyone makes a mistake ...then we will have no one to keep us safe
Snr Amaral allegedly made a mistake which he's forgiven for then,tis the season of goodwill after all.
Joyeux Noel.
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Holiday time,joyeux noel.
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Ah,so we only forgive those who are incompetent in our country, xenophobia rears its head again.
What would you think if dick had written a book saying as far as she was concerned...de menezes was a potential suicide bomber and deserved to die......no doubt you would support her freedom of speech
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Snr Amaral allegedly made a mistake which he's forgiven for then,tis the season of goodwill after all.
Joyeux Noel.
Madeleine's parents also made a mistake.
Perhaps time for some to forgive, 'tis the season of goodwill after all
Christmas blessings to all.
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Im asking because I think the PJ investigation was absolute disgrace...but it seems im not allowed to say so....so if barrier is allowed to refer to the Home office as morons we need to have some parity on the forum...obviously there isnt any......fair enough...
I haven't censored your comment. However, I am not the only Moderator.
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She ordered the 'hard stop', which sanctioned shooting the suspect.
I presume that you have proof of that statement.
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Im asking because I think the PJ investigation was absolute disgrace...but it seems im not allowed to say so....so if barrier is allowed to refer to the Home office as morons we need to have some parity on the forum...obviously there isnt any......fair enough...
You are entitled to your opinion Dave but I think you place the blame for the failed initial investigation with the wrong people.
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You are entitled to your opinion Dave but I think you place the blame for the failed initial investigation with the wrong people.
And I think you do... Almeida who wrote the interim report said the main evidence against the mccanns was the dog alerts... Which are not evidence... Yet the PJ rated then as proven facts... They also believed forensics placed maddies body in the hire car... Which we know they didn't... So it's not opinion it's fact... The PJ were convinced of the mccanns involvement based in their inability to understand the evidence... It's all in amarals book and video... IMO... They hadn't got a clue
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You are entitled to your opinion Dave but I think you place the blame for the failed initial investigation with the wrong people.
I don't think so. Who was supposedly In Charge of the Initial Investigation? It was a complete cock up and no where near half professional.
My thoughts on Amaral are unprintable.
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You are entitled to your opinion Dave but I think you place the blame for the failed initial investigation with the wrong people.
Amaral produced his evidence in his documentary and claimed it proved Maddie died in the apartment... He was wrong.. It didn't... What does that say for the initial investigation... Bothe Portuguese and SY are not following amarals theories... It's not hard to see why... The man was a complete...
I'm confident the case will go to the ECHR and we will see what an independent court thinks of amarals claims... No wonder he's keeping his mouth shut now
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Dear John, You gob smack me sometimes. You castigate me for my occasional outbursts, and then you say something like that.
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You are entitled to your opinion Dave but I think you place the blame for the failed initial investigation with the wrong people.
With whom do you place the blame and why?
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Amaral produced his evidence in his documentary and claimed it proved Maddie died in the apartment... He was wrong.. It didn't... What does that say for the initial investigation... Bothe Portuguese and SY are not following amarals theories... It's not hard to see why... The man was a complete...
I'm confident the case will go to the ECHR and we will see what an independent court thinks of amarals claims... No wonder he's keeping his mouth shut now
Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation so to condemn the entire investigation on the basis of his theories implies a general prejudice towards the Portuguese police. Many detectives both Portuguese and English were involved in the initial investigation and seemingly arrived at the same conclusion eventually. Unfortunately for them though, political interference became an overriding factor, something which to this day has never been satisfactorily explained.
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Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation so to condemn the entire investigation on the basis of his theories implies a general prejudice towards the Portuguese police. Many detectives both Portuguese and English were involved in the initial investigation and seemingly arrived at the same conclusion eventually.
Amaral claims his theory was shared by the whole team.. The PJ files state the, alert to cadaver was, a proven fact.. It isn't.. There is no prejudice from me... Amaral claimed the forensics placed maddues cadaver in the hire car... They didn't... In fact all the evidence used to make the mccans arguidos was not confirmed... I have never seen any confirmation that the UK police believed amarals theory.. In fact it seems the FSS were angry with the PJ for misrepresenting their findings... On that basis I think it's fair to say the initial investigation wad an almighty Cock up...
The new investigation in Portugal has said there is NO EVIDENCE against the mccanbs abd they are NOT SUSPECTS.. In fact according to you they are investigating woke and wandered... Hardly an endorsement fir amaral
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Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation so to condemn the entire investigation on the basis of his theories implies a general prejudice towards the Portuguese police. Many detectives both Portuguese and English were involved in the initial investigation and seemingly arrived at the same conclusion eventually. Unfortunately for them though, political interference became an overriding factor, something which to this day has never been satisfactorily explained.
Amaral blamed political interference to cover up his own shortcomings... I dint see how any political interference affected the investigation... The problem for the investigation wasn't political interference but the fact they had no evidence to support their claims.... No evidence because the mccanns were innocent
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Amaral blamed political interference to cover up his own shortcomings... I dint see how any political interference affected the investigation... The problem for the investigation wasn't political interference but the fact they had no evidence to support their claims.... No evidence because the mccanns were innocent
Any Political interference came from the fear that Kate McCann might be treated in the same way that Leonor Cipriano was treated. That's why The Ambassador hot footed to The Algarve.
And don't any of you think that this couldn't have happened. Portugal is a disgrace.
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Any Political interference came from the fear that Kate McCann might be treated in the same way that Leonor Cipriano was treated. That's why The Ambassador hot footed to The Algarve.
And don't any of you think that this couldn't have happened. Portugal is a disgrace.
To be fair Eleanor when it comes to the treatment of individuals in custody the U.K. has a pretty disgraceful track record itself.
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/deaths-in-custody
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/deaths-in-custody
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To be fair Eleanor when it comes to the treatment of individuals in custody the U.K. has a pretty disgraceful track record itself.
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/deaths-in-custody
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/deaths-in-custody
no it doesnt...cipriano was not a strapping young man resisting arrest...in portugal these young me would have got a good hiding and survived...john will confirm...in the UK only passive restraint is allowed which means ten police have to sit on a suspect...for those that understand...thats a recipe for disaster.....the main picture in your quote was not a death in custody but a young man who swallowed his drug stash on attempted arrest and choked
The IOPC also identified conflicting advice given to police nationally about searching people suspected of placing drugs or other packages in their mouths, and announced a comprehensive review into the practice.
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no it doesnt...cipriano was not a strapping young man resisting arrest...in portugal these young me would have got a good hiding and survived...john will confirm...in the UK only passive restraint is allowed which means ten police have to sit on a suspect...for those that understand...thats a recipe for disaster.....the main picture in your quote was not a death in custody but a young man who swallowed his drug stash on attempted arrest and choked
The IOPC also identified conflicting advice given to police nationally about searching people suspected of placing drugs or other packages in their mouths, and announced a comprehensive review into the practice.
And how do you justify this abhorrent treatment of a vulnerable individual ?
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And how do you justify this abhorrent treatment of a vulnerable individual ?
I justify it by the fact that the policeman does not want to be in that position...if people want to evade arrest... swallow evidence...including drugs,.....then sadly they only have themselves to blame..
I understand you are from the abbot camp re crime...please correct me if im wrong... Dianne abbot has criticised police for knocking criminals off scooters,,....words fail me
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I justify it by the fact that the policeman does not want to be in that position...if people want to evade arrest... swallow evidence...including drugs,.....then sadly they only have themselves to blame..
I understand you are from the abbot camp re crime...please correct me if im wrong... Dianne abbot has criticised police for knocking criminals off scooters,,....words fail me
This individual https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thomas-orchard-death-police-mentally-ill-belt-charged-devon-cornwall-a8320511.html
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This individual https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thomas-orchard-death-police-mentally-ill-belt-charged-devon-cornwall-a8320511.html
when you have some experience in the restraint of a violent or mentally disturbed individual your opinion might have some value...you dont...so it doesnt..
+You actually raise an important point...the most effective way to restrain someone is to knock them out...this is illegall in the uk...so 10 policeman have to sit on someone to passively restrain them...which..as anyone knows...is a very dangerous action...the police hands are tied
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when you have some experience in the restraint of a violent or mentally disturbed individual your opinion might have some value...you dont...so it doesnt..
+You actually raise an important point...the most effective way to restrain someone is to knock them out...this is illegall in the uk...so 10 policeman have to sit on someone to passively restrain them...which..as anyone knows...is a very dangerous action...the police hands are tied
As this poor man’s mouth was....with a belt.
Further you have no idea what I have experience in.
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As this poor man’s mouth was....with a belt.
Further you have no idea what I have experience in.
Snip
Mr Tansley called for an emergency restraint belt (ERB) and wrapped it around Mr Orchard's face.
Devon and Cornwall Police had authorised the US-made restraint device for use across the face to prevent spitting or biting.
A risk assessment of the belt by the force did not identify or refer to any risks to detainees when it was used around the head.
The force is being investigated for suspected offences of corporate manslaughter and offences under the Health and Safety at Work legislation.
Mr Orchard, who was 5ft 7in, was then carried to cell M6 by four officers.
He was placed chest-down on a blue mattress in the cell and searched while handcuffed and in restraints, with the ERB around his face.
_____________________________________________________________________
The ERB was distributed in the UK by Pro-Tect Systems Limited, the company that had its Taser licence revoked in 2010 after it was found to have supplied non-approved X-12 Tasers. These were used during the stand-off with gunman Raoul Moat in Northumberland in July 2010.
A training manual for the ERB advised that it could be used to prevent a detainee from spitting or biting, claiming that this was a common scenario inside police vehicles.
The manual instructs those using the device about the head to do so lightly, without pressure.
This page was removed from the ERB manual in 2011 as it was uncommon for it to be used in this way, the court heard.
Devon and Cornwall Police did not receive the updated manual until they had a refresher ERB training session with the company after Mr Orchard's death.
Custody records show the force used the ERB around a detained person's face 55 times in the 12 months up to and including Mr Orchard's detention.
Giving evidence, all three defendants claimed Mr Orchard had posed a threat during his time in the custody unit and was saying “I'll bite your f****** face off”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thomas-orchard-custody-death-latest-police-cleared-exeter-devon-mental-health-three-officers-a7629156.html
A tragic case ... but entirely off topic as it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Scotland Yard will continue to pursue Madeleine's case as stated by Metropolitan police commissioner, Cressida Dick.
Please desist from derailing threads.
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As this poor man’s mouth was....with a belt.
Further you have no idea what I have experience in.
As the officers in question were found not guilty of any wrongdoing in what way is this an example of the UK’s “disgraceful” track record?
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Snip
Mr Tansley called for an emergency restraint belt (ERB) and wrapped it around Mr Orchard's face.
Devon and Cornwall Police had authorised the US-made restraint device for use across the face to prevent spitting or biting.
A risk assessment of the belt by the force did not identify or refer to any risks to detainees when it was used around the head.
The force is being investigated for suspected offences of corporate manslaughter and offences under the Health and Safety at Work legislation.
Mr Orchard, who was 5ft 7in, was then carried to cell M6 by four officers.
He was placed chest-down on a blue mattress in the cell and searched while handcuffed and in restraints, with the ERB around his face.
_____________________________________________________________________
The ERB was distributed in the UK by Pro-Tect Systems Limited, the company that had its Taser licence revoked in 2010 after it was found to have supplied non-approved X-12 Tasers. These were used during the stand-off with gunman Raoul Moat in Northumberland in July 2010.
A training manual for the ERB advised that it could be used to prevent a detainee from spitting or biting, claiming that this was a common scenario inside police vehicles.
The manual instructs those using the device about the head to do so lightly, without pressure.
This page was removed from the ERB manual in 2011 as it was uncommon for it to be used in this way, the court heard.
Devon and Cornwall Police did not receive the updated manual until they had a refresher ERB training session with the company after Mr Orchard's death.
Custody records show the force used the ERB around a detained person's face 55 times in the 12 months up to and including Mr Orchard's detention.
Giving evidence, all three defendants claimed Mr Orchard had posed a threat during his time in the custody unit and was saying “I'll bite your f****** face off”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thomas-orchard-custody-death-latest-police-cleared-exeter-devon-mental-health-three-officers-a7629156.html
A tragic case ... but entirely off topic as it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Scotland Yard will continue to pursue Madeleine's case as stated by Metropolitan police commissioner, Cressida Dick.
Please desist from derailing threads.
I never cease to be amazed what some people are able to justify.
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I never cease to be amazed what some people are able to justify.
And I never cease to be amazed by some people’s lack of self awareness.
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I never cease to be amazed what some people are able to justify.
So what should the police do when a suspect wants to bite and spit at them
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So what should the police do when a suspect wants to bite and spit at them
Not killing them would be a start.
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No public thank you again for the extra funding or all the effort OG officers are putting in to finding their daughter.
Seems a tad ungrateful but I suppose it takes all sorts.
http://www.findmadeleine.com
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Not killing them would be a start.
That's, what you wouldn't do... So how would you deal with someone who wanted to bite, and spit at you....
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No public thank you again for the extra funding or all the effort OG officers are putting in to finding their daughter.
Seems a tad ungrateful but I suppose it takes all sorts.
http://www.findmadeleine.com
I heard from a secret source that the McCanns sent Cressida Dick a card with a tenner in it and a bottle of sherry by way of a thank you.
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That's, what you wouldn't do... So how would you deal with someone who wanted to bite, and spit at you....
Devise a restraint that wouldn’t kill them ?
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Devise a restraint that wouldn’t kill them ?
I don't think that is a job for the police.... They used what they were advised to use.... The fault lies with the person doing the biting and spitting.... Perhaps his family should have ensured he took his medication
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No public thank you again for the extra funding or all the effort OG officers are putting in to finding their daughter.
Seems a tad ungrateful but I suppose it takes all sorts.
http://www.findmadeleine.com
Facebook;
Official Find Madeleine Campaign
12 hrs ·
Christmas 2018
We couldn’t let a Christmas go by without passing on a warm ‘thank you’ to all our supporters for the kind and continuing good wishes, especially at this very busy time of year.
We miss Madeleine dearly. Christmas will never be the same without her, but we will continue to make the best of what we have.
The investigation is ongoing and our hope remains.
May 2019 be a peaceful and positive one for us all.
Thank you.
Kate & Gerry
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I don't think that is a job for the police.... They used what they were advised to use.... The fault lies with the person doing the biting and spitting.... Perhaps his family should have ensured he took his medication
And sceptics are accused of having no empathy...sheesh !!
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And sceptics are accused of having no empathy...sheesh !!
His death was a tragedy...... But to single out the police is grossly unfair... IMO... There will be a hearing in April 2019 to discover the cause of his, death
I also have sympathy for our soldiers... Being tried for supposed offences in a war zone. In one case resulting in being jailed... Fuelled by greedy lawyers
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His death was a tragedy...... But to single out the police is grossly unfair... IMO... There will be a hearing in April 2019 to discover the cause of his, death
It was as a direct result of the officers actions that the gentleman is dead. Let’s hope justice prevails in April.
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It was as a direct result of the officers actions that the gentleman is dead. Let’s hope justice prevails in April.
I think it was, a result of several circumstances.... In fact I know it was..... Failure to take medication... The police unaware he was mentally I'll... The police having poor training in dealing with restraint... But we should understand... The police don't want to have to restrain suspects... They don't have a choice.... The suspect does
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I think it was, a result of several circumstances.... In fact I know it was..... Failure to take medication... The police unaware he was mentally I'll... The police having poor training in dealing with restraint... But we should understand... The police don't want to have to restrain suspects... They don't have a choice.... The suspect does
Not if he’s mentally ill.
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And this should make us all ashamed.
‘Over 2016-17 there have been 14 deaths in, or following, police custody – eight of whom had mental health concerns – according to IOPC figures.’
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And this should make us all ashamed.
‘Over 2016-17 there have been 14 deaths in, or following, police custody – eight of whom had mental health concerns – according to IOPC figures.’
I don't feel ashamed in the slightest... I sympathise with everyone involved ..
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Not if he’s mentally ill.
His illness was a contributing factor.... Without his medication he was a danger to the public
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And this should make us all ashamed.
‘Over 2016-17 there have been 14 deaths in, or following, police custody – eight of whom had mental health concerns – according to IOPC figures.’
What were the causes of death? How many deaths in custody in Portugal over the same period?
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The European average for prison deaths was of 26.3 deaths per 10,000 inmates, whereas in Portugal that number went up to 50.
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Not if he’s mentally ill.
How should the police deal with a violent and threatening individual suspected of public order offences? The police in this case were found to have used proportionate force so what would you like to see changed?
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The European average for prison deaths was of 26.3 deaths per 10,000 inmates, whereas in Portugal that number went up to 50.
I trust the Portuguese and those that love Portugal above their own country feel suitably ashamed.
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I doubt they need spit hoods in Portuguese police stations... For obvious reasons
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The European average for prison deaths was of 26.3 deaths per 10,000 inmates, whereas in Portugal that number went up to 50.
Cite please.
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His illness was a contributing factor.... Without his medication he was a danger to the public
Nowhere in the article does it say he was a danger to the public....or do you think all individual with mental health issues are ‘dangerous ‘ ?
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I trust the Portuguese and those that love Portugal above their own country feel suitably ashamed.
why should they feel ashamed? Golfers and holiday makers should feel ashamed? (&^&
are the McCanns not ashamed they left their daughter to be (...) They don't seem to show shame in any way shape or form in any of their interviews. And this is what this thread is about. Will it reach a conclusion. I would stab a guess at NO.