Does the sequence of events support abduction or manslaughter?

[John]

Does the sequence of events support abduction or manslaughter?

I admit I haven't given too much thought to the ins and outs in the Madeleine case for a while but having read most of today's posts I got to thinking.

Madeleine was alive and well when she left the crèche on the day she disappeared.  Her parents were seen on CCTV returning to the apartment with the children that afternoon and some hours before they reappeared at the tapas bar.

If something untoward had happened to Madeleine in that apartment and her parents had decided to conceal her remains for whatever reason and concoct a story about an abduction, I find it highly improbable that they would have alerted anyone that night.  It just didn't give them enough time to get rid of the evidence.

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

[Eleanor]

A very sensible post, John.

[John]

A very sensible post, John.

Why thank you Eleanor, my time in the police hasn't been wasted after all!   

[debunker]

Does the sequence of events support abduction or manslaughter?

I admit I haven't given too much thought to the ins and outs in the Madeleine case for a while but having read most of today's posts I got to thinking.

Madeleine was alive and well when she left the crèche on the day she disappeared.  Her parents were seen on CCTV returning to the apartment with the children that afternoon and some hours before they reappeared at the tapas bar.

If something untoward had happened to Madeleine in that apartment and her parents had decided to conceal her remains for whatever reason and concoct a story about an abduction, I find it highly improbable that they would have alerted anyone that night.  It just didn't give them enough time to get rid of the evidence.


They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

If you want to understand the stranger [ censored word] you need to dispense with rationality and morals completely. Some aver she died 2 or three days ealier and they used a double to disguise this, carrying her body in the back of a pushchair in which were satthe twins. Others believe she did not travel to Portugal at all. Gerry carried her body back to the©©UK in hishand baggage. They also wrapped her body in a dead dog and cremated her in a pet cemetery. Bush, Brown and Blair protect them because of knowledge that Gerry has about nuclear
medicine. Madeleine was an experiment in cloning that went wrong and her body had to be disposed of. Madeleine. Was used by a British pado ring involving Labour politicians and died while being assaulted.

Take your choice.

[Luz]

Does the sequence of events support abduction or manslaughter?

I admit I haven't given too much thought to the ins and outs in the Madeleine case for a while but having read most of today's posts I got to thinking.

Madeleine was alive and well when she left the crèche on the day she disappeared.  Her parents were seen on CCTV returning to the apartment with the children that afternoon and some hours before they reappeared at the tapas bar.

If something untoward had happened to Madeleine in that apartment and her parents had decided to conceal her remains for whatever reason and concoct a story about an abduction, I find it highly improbable that they would have alerted anyone that night.  It just didn't give them enough time to get rid of the evidence.

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

You certainly have grasped it very quickly. I've been reading about the case since the beginning and still can't make my mind.
However I believe that manslaughter would be the adequate legal label. I don't know if the McCann were directly or indirectly involved in the demise of the child, my gut feeling is that they weren't, but I am sure that they know what happened and they, for some reason chose to hide it.

I've always found very disturbing the apparent contradiction between their (the parents) allusion to a possible paedophile abductor and at the same time the intensity used to make (or try to) people believe that the child was well and alive.

Another aspect that made me very suspicious about this case was that in the early days the police cautioned the parents to avoid divulge any identifying marks on the childs body, because there was a real danger that an abductor would "get rid" of her, and on that same day, under the Mr.McCanns "wider agenda" goals they revealed her eye and left leg marks - according to Mr. McCans interview to the Vanity magazine, those perils were known but "it was a good marketing ploy".

If the child was suspected or expected to be alive which parent would risk her life like that?!

[John]

When I was at the beach at Palma, Majorca, some years ago with my 3-year-old he disappeared from right in front of my eyes.  One second he was there the next all I could see was this...

Rows and rows of tourists in every direction.



Shock horror!!   Which way to go?

It is so easy to lose a child with the best will in the world.

[Luz]

John:

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

We must remember that the holidays were ending, how could they explain the lack of one child on the return home? Besides I think that the whole group was fundamental to keep the "tale" up.

On what concerns the possible viewing of G. McC walking with a child, it has not been confirmed as the "reconstruction" was not possible. But even if it was him it does not collide with the facts because independent witnesses could not account for his whereabouts between 21:15 and 22:00h.

[John]

John:

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

We must remember that the holidays were ending, how could they explain the lack of one child on the return home? Besides I think that the whole group was fundamental to keep the "tale" up.

On what concerns the possible viewing of G. McC walking with a child, it has not been confirmed as the "reconstruction" was not possible. But even if it was him it does not collide with the facts because independent witnesses could not account for his whereabouts between 21:15 and 22:00h.

Was that when he was checking the children?

[Luz]

Yes, it's too easy to "loose" a child in a crowded place, but not so easy in a closed home/house.


This is another aspect I don't believe, the supposed opened doors. If the back door was opened why did Mr. McCann walk 200 plus meters more when he wanted to use the loo, and entered through the front door with his key?!

[Eleanor]

John:

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

We must remember that the holidays were ending, how could they explain the lack of one child on the return home? Besides I think that the whole group was fundamental to keep the "tale" up.

On what concerns the possible viewing of G. McC walking with a child, it has not been confirmed as the "reconstruction" was not possible. But even if it was him it does not collide with the facts because independent witnesses could not account for his whereabouts between 21:15 and 22:00h.

Was that when he was checking the children?

That statement by Luz is not true.  Gerry  was gone from the table between 9 pm and 9.20 pm. during which time he spoke to another independent witness who confirmed this.

[stephen25000]

Please provide evidence he was seen by independent witnesses from 9.15 to 10 pm.

[Luz]

John:

They could have waited until everyone dispersed leaving them the entire night to plan their next move.

As far as Gerry being seen some distance away from the holiday complex walking with a child, how could he possibly have done that when his whereabouts were known to within minutes that entire evening?

We must remember that the holidays were ending, how could they explain the lack of one child on the return home? Besides I think that the whole group was fundamental to keep the "tale" up.

On what concerns the possible viewing of G. McC walking with a child, it has not been confirmed as the "reconstruction" was not possible. But even if it was him it does not collide with the facts because independent witnesses could not account for his whereabouts between 21:15 and 22:00h.

Was that when he was checking the children?

That statement by Luz is not true.  Gerry  was gone from the table between 9 pm and 9.20 pm. during which time he spoke to another independent witness who confirmed this.

Between 9 and 9:20 I believe you are referring to Jeremy Wilkins; where does that make make my observation "not true".

Yes John, his Jezz meeting was when he went to check the kids and also to make it to the loo...there are contradictory testimonies where at first (police depositions) he says he went through the front door and later (to the media, I think) he said he used the back door.

[goatboy]

Though I think they could have been involved in Maddie's death I don't see how they could have had time to dispose of a body etc unless the real timeline was radically different to the official one. That's why I'm undecided (plus there is evidence of Portuguese police putting pressure on the parents of a missing child to admit to murder on at least one occasion in the past, and child abductions are disproportionally common in Portugal).

[sika]

Let us just suppose that Kate and Gerry found Maddie, dead in the apartment. How on earth did they manage to conceal and then later, dispose of her body?

[Eleanor]

Let us just suppose that Kate and Gerry found Maddie, dead in the apartment. How on earth did they manage to conceal and then later, dispose of her body?

Yours is the reaction of a logical person.