A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm slowly getting to grips with this case thanks to those who have posted some excellent references so far.   I must say that I have changed my mind several times as to who was the murderer such are the contradictions.  A couple of things stand out though and point to DB.

* Getting up early to kill your family is unusual.
* The blood stained green jumper.
* DB's bloody print on the washing machine.
* DB's bloodstained gloves found under Stephen's bed.
* DB insisting the sister who lived away be home that weekend.

There's a pattern emerging...those who see JB guilty are also inclined to see DB guilty! 

John may I recommend the following podcast:

http://stuff.libsyn.com/mrs-bain-the-diary-and-the-devil

At 5 mins in it features an interview with a psychologist who met with the entire Bain family a year before they left PNG.  She described RB's persona as an act, shell and said she found him devoid of emotion.  When she first heard about the murders she thought he may have snapped from years of powerelessness ? I think that's the word used.

It sounds to me the couple were grossly dysfunctional and drove one another literally insane.  I think they fell off the radar in PNG.  Had they remained in NZ maybe their extended families and others would have reined them in. 

[John]

There's a pattern emerging...those who see JB guilty are also inclined to see DB guilty! 

John may I recommend the following podcast:

http://stuff.libsyn.com/mrs-bain-the-diary-and-the-devil

At 5 mins in it features an interview with a psychologist who met with the entire Bain family a year before they left PNG.  She described RB's persona as an act, shell and said she found him devoid of emotion.  When she first heard about the murders she thought he may have snapped from years of powerelessness ? I think that's the word used.

It sounds to me the couple were grossly dysfunctional and drove one another literally insane.  I think they fell off the radar in PNG.  Had they remained in NZ maybe their extended families and others would have reined them in.

I agree, several years living in such primitive conditions would send any westerner de lally.

I can understand what you mean by pattern but I don't necessarily agree, I go by the evidence usually.

Another facet of the case is the way DB reacted when police first attended the scene.

[Myster]

I agree, several years living in such primitive conditions would send any westerner de lally.

I can understand what you mean by pattern but I don't necessarily agree, I go by the evidence usually.

Another facet of the case is the way DB reacted when police first attended the scene.

Why bother summoning an ambulance at all when he was insistent that all his family were dead?... then when police arrive they have to break in because he refused to unlock the front door.  Crazy!

[Holly Goodhead]

Why bother summoning an ambulance at all when he was insistent that all his family were dead?... then when police arrive they have to break in because he refused to unlock the front door.  Crazy!

I assume the call handler ordered the ambulance.  Lay people are not usually competent to declare a person dead. 

He was suffering from PTSD.  How would anyone react on discovering their entire immediate family had been wiped out?  Imagine going from room to room seeing each family member apparently dead.  We would need 100 similar cases to establish a range of 'normal' responses.  Imagine for a sec he's innocent. 

[John]

Why bother summoning an ambulance at all when he was insistent that all his family were dead?... then when police arrive they have to break in because he refused to unlock the front door.  Crazy!

Correct, the normal response for an adult in such a situation is to meet the responders at the front door and beckon them in urgently.  Add to this the fact that anyone arriving home to such a scene would telephone the emergency services immediately in case mad gunman was lurking nearby.  None of this happened with David Bain and I understand no satisfactory explanation has ever been received from him to explain his responses?

[Myster]

I assume the call handler ordered the ambulance.  Lay people are not usually competent to declare a person dead. 

He was suffering from PTSD.  How would anyone react on discovering their entire immediate family had been wiped out?  Imagine going from room to room seeing each family member apparently dead.  We would need 100 similar cases to establish a range of 'normal' responses.  Imagine for a sec he's innocent.

The male call handler was from Dunedin ambulance service. Bain was then transferred to a female call handler to pacify him, though he still repeated to her that all his family were dead.

David Bain's former psychiatrist Phil Brinded when cross-examined at the 2009 retrial said -

"acute stress reaction and PTSD could also be experienced by somebody who had committed a murder."

He was familiar with a study that showed 70 per cent of murderers had some sort of amnesia of the events.

Source: stuff.

[John]

The male call handler was from Dunedin ambulance service. Bain was then transferred to a female call handler to pacify him, though he still repeated to her that all his family were dead.

David Bain's former psychiatrist Phil Brinded when cross-examined at the 2009 retrial said -

"acute stress reaction and PTSD could also be experienced by somebody who had committed a murder."

He was familiar with a study that showed 70 per cent of murderers had some sort of amnesia of the events.

Source: stuff.

Killers who are in denial have usually convinced themselves that they couldn't possibly have done such a dreadful thing.

[Holly Goodhead]

The male call handler was from Dunedin ambulance service. Bain was then transferred to a female call handler to pacify him, though he still repeated to her that all his family were dead.

David Bain's former psychiatrist Phil Brinded when cross-examined at the 2009 retrial said -

"acute stress reaction and PTSD could also be experienced by somebody who had committed a murder."

He was familiar with a study that showed 70 per cent of murderers had some sort of amnesia of the events.

Source: stuff.

But can all murderers be lumped together?

Crime of passion - man/woman loses mind jealousy, anger eg Jane Andrews
Crime of extreme emotion - shame, rage over some wrong real or imagined eg Thomas Hamilton
Crime of anger - some have a short fuse - anger managment eg guy pulls a knife on someone accidentally brushing past in a pub
Crime of insanity - the mentally ill suffering psychosis or the like
Crime under the influence drink/drugs

Had RB survived I wonder if he might have suffered amnesia?   

[adam]

Killers who are in denial have usually convinced themselves that they couldn't possibly done such a dreadful thing.

Pre meditated murders on a person the killer already knows,  the killer has already convinced himself he is justified in committing the murder.

This will make the murderer more determined to not admit to the crime, if they become a suspect.

As in the cases of Bamber & OJ Simpson. OJ telling his long term girlfriend 'she had it coming', in other words, deserved it.

[Samson]

Thank goodness for people like Justice Binnie: non prejudicial, intelligent, common sense and compassionate.  A complete contrast with the trial judge and appeal court judges in JB's case.

Samson can we get him on board with JB?  The similarities with the Bain case are striking and I'm sure he would find it of interest.

He was in New Zealand for a lawyers conference, I believe he might well be interested. He seems a man of the people, not an Ivory Tower. On the other hand, he was asked to analyse Bain by our government, not by the "riff raff" like us  . But I could write, because he will be stunned but unsurprised by the disgraceful scientific corruption in Lundy. Nostalgia and I are helping with the appeal for october 14 by the way.

[adam]

Wikipedia says the prosecution case was that the motive was to inherit.

The defence case is it was another family member. Who died in the massacre after shooting himself. Why ? He snapped.

Poor David Bain was out doing his paper round.

All sounds familiar.

[Samson]

Here we go...a film

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11908493

"Karam said he had never heard of the film or Dobson.

"He's never been in touch with me, so I've got nothing to say."

He did not think Bain had been told the film was being produced, Karam said."

I guess we have to suffer some more woeful pretense that there is a mystery to be solved.
Or maybe it will resolve favourably for DB as Winterbottom's film did for Amanda Knox.

[Samson]

Ian Binnie seems easy to contact

https://www.arbitrationplace.com/ian-binnie

(and not bad for 78 Holly  )

[Myster]

Holly's handbag isn't big enough to hold 400 grand.

[Myster]

Here we go...a film

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11908493

"Karam said he had never heard of the film or Dobson.

"He's never been in touch with me, so I've got nothing to say."

He did not think Bain had been told the film was being produced, Karam said."

I guess we have to suffer some more woeful pretense that there is a mystery to be solved.
Or maybe it will resolve favourably for DB as Winterbottom's film did for Amanda Knox.

Filming only starts in 12 months, then reckon on another twelve for editing and scheduling. A long wait for a drama/doc which ends at the first trial, and lets viewers reach their own conclusions.