The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[Mr Gray]

poor woman...victim of a corrupt and disgraced policeman...Portugal should hang its head in shame..in most countries men beating up a women is reviled

[sadie]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/eldest-sister-didnt-know-that-joana.html
Leonor under age, working in the fields  became pregnant to Vitor Pereira, a steel worker.  This, her first child , a daughter, aged now about 23  is called Dina.  I think that Leonor was only about 13 or 14 when she was impregnated.  If I am incorrect please correct me.
 
Vitor married Leonor.  They are still officially married. 

When Dina was about 11 months, Leonor still only extremely young, left with Dina.  After a while the Husband and Mother -in- Law went to get Leonor and Joana back

But she tells that one day, she left the house carrying the little girl who was then 11 months old, and left behind a piece of paper that read “I went to pick up the identity card at my mother’s place”.

Due to the fact that Leonor wouldn’t return, and upon request from Vitor, Maria do Carmo went to fetch her in Alcantarilha. She managed to retrieve her granddaughter but not Leonor, who simply said to her “If she goes with you, she’ll be fine”.

How sad.  Poor Leonor with a man that she quite obviously didn't like, and only a youngish teenager, being torn apart like that.  She took Dina with her and obviously wanted her because of this.

For some reason that we do not know, Leonor did not want to return to Vitor ... poor kid

Mother -in-Law says she was a giood mother.

From Leonor, Maria do Carmo holds memories that include having been “a good mother while she lived here”.

The thing that I notice is that despite all the feelings they must have had against Leonor, the Mother-in Law Maria do Carmo, still says

From Leonor, Maria do Carmo holds memories that include having been “a good mother while she lived here”.

After that, she only saw her again once, one month later.

[Anna]

According to Joana Morias

Transcript/Translation of Leonor Cipriano's words:

Leonor Cipriano: It's very sad. My son misses his sister [Joana] very much, and

Q: Do you have any idea of where your daughter might be at the moment?
LC: I can imagine anything... I don't know if she's alive or if she isn't... if she is well... I don't know, I don't have an explanation for my daugher having... I don't know, I don't know.




Poor woman.  She doesn't look a monster on this, does she?  Gentle with, I presume, her daughter Laura.

At the time Joana vanished, Leonor had two younger children Laura and Ruben.  One was about three y.o. and the other about one y.o. give, or take, a few months

The statements from people who knew her said she was not capable of violence, never smacked her children and Joane always spoke well of her mother. As for doing all the housework Joane played most days with the daughter of the café owner. Her mother believed leonors innocence, but condemned her violent drug addict son

[stephen25000]

poor woman...victim of a corrupt and disgraced policeman...Portugal should hang its head in shame..in most countries men beating up a women is reviled

Here we go again, Amaral bashing.

[sadie]

What do monsters look like sadie ?

Can you send a photo, please Stephen? 

[Anna]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/eldest-sister-didnt-know-that-joana.html
Leonor under age, working in the fields  became pregnant to Vitor Pereira, a steel worker.  This, her first child , a daughter, aged now about 23  is called Dina.  I think that Leonor was only about 13 or 14 when she was impregnated.  If I am incorrect please correct me.
 
Vitor married Leonor.  They are still officially married. 

When Dina was about 11 months, Leonor still only extremely young, left with Dina.  After a while the Husband and Mother -in- Law went to get Leonor and Joana back

How sad.  Poor Leonor with a man that she quite obviously didn't like, and only a youngish teenager, being torn apart like that.  She took Dina with her and obviously wanted her because of this.

For some reason that we do not know, Leonor did not want to return to Vitor ... poor kid

Mother -in-Law says she was a giood mother.

From Leonor, Maria do Carmo holds memories that include having been “a good mother while she lived here”.

The thing that I notice is that despite all the feelings they must have had against Leonor, the Mother-in Law Maria do Carmo, still says


After that, she only saw her again once, one month later.

I read somewhere that she got married at 18......Yes the court case

[stephen25000]

Can you send a photo, please Stephen? 

Pathetic sadie, just pathetic.

[sadie]

Pathetic sadie, just pathetic.

Well you cant help it.

Fancy asking "What do monsters look like?" 

[Anna]

Well you cant help it.

Fancy asking "What do monsters look like?" 

He is rather like nasty commercial interfering with a good programme on TV. I need to find this ignore button

[sadie]

When did leonor start working as a prostitute? Do you know? Apparently her own mother forced her into it..... do you know WHy this excellent mother farmed most of her kids out to their dads?  Like kittens.....months after she had them? and never kept in touch...... lovely mum.......exemplary

Who says she was a prostitute?  Amaral ?  The man who is a proven liar?

Bet she didn't get drunk in charge of her children, like Amaral and some others do/did.


We know that she was underage when Vitor impregnated her.  Her first child was in a married situation, but it didn't work.  Vitor and his Mum came to take Dina away and rear her, which makes a lot of sense, cos Leonor neither had the maturity, or the money to do it.  From what I have read, seems that seperated, or unmarried women, dont get anything from the State as happens here in the UK.  Probably in Ireland too, Red?

You cant raise a child on no money ... so better that the Father and his Mum did it.


The last two children, Laura and Ruben, were the fruit of a stable 6 year relationship.

Joana was not from a one night stand.  She the fruit of a proper relationship, altho it didn't last.   Altho her Mum couldn't really afford to look after her, Joana grew up for the first eight years of her life with Leonor and later Leandro.  From photos she clearlly loved them both, and they loved her.  Such a vibrant happy little girl doesn't come about without loads of love and attention from her Mum and Dad.

That leaves two other children who I haven't researched ... Yet !   But Leonor was pretty  young when she had them ... and we dont know the circumastances, as to why the paternal family took them

What you are forgetting Red, is that each child was either

1)  given away by Leonor; maybe she couldn't afford them; no state help

OR,

2)  The paternal part of the relationship took the child from her

We just dont know whether it was

i)  a flippant give away,
ii)  a sensible arrangement cos Leonor had no money , or
iii)  an enforcement type arrangement by the fathers family .. or maybe even the State/ church?


Three times it has come thru to me That Leonor was a really good mother. 
1)  From her Mother-in-law, with her first born Dina.. and
2)  from her partner Leandro with his two kids and also Joana. 
3)  Her mother also commented on her love for Joana as did others in the community.

So comments about how good she was for 4 of the kids.  We dont know enough yet about the other two

The photographs prove it all.  Must post some more, but not tonight.  Am tired

G'night Red.

[stephen25000]

Who says she was a prostitute?  Amaral ?  The man who is a proven liar?

Bet she didn't get drunk in charge of her children, like Amaral and some others do/did.


We know that she was underage when Vitor impregnated her.  Her first child was in a married situation, but it didn't work.  Vitor and his Mum came to take Dina away and rear her, which makes a lot of sense, cos Leonor neither had the maturity, or the money to do it.  From what I have read, seems that seperated, or unmarried women, dont get anything from the State as happens here in the UK.  Probably in Ireland too, Red?

You cant raise a child on no money ... so better that the Father and his Mum did it.


The last two children, Laura and Ruben, were the fruit of a stable 6 year relationship.

Joana was not from a one night stand.  She the fruit of a proper relationship, altho it didn't last.   Altho her Mum couldn't really afford to look after her, Joana grew up for the first eight years of her life with Leonor and later Leandro.  From photos she clearlly loved them both, and they loved her.  Such a vibrant happy little girl doesn't come about without loads of love and attention from her Mum and Dad.

That leaves two other children who I haven't researched ... Yet !   But Leonor was pretty  young when she had them ... and we dont know the circumastances, as to why the paternal family took them

What you are forgetting Red, is that each child was either

1)  given away by Leonor; maybe she couldn't afford them; no state help

OR,

2)  The paternal part of the relationship took the child from her

We just dont know whether it was

i)  a flippant give away,
ii)  a sensible arrangement cos Leonor had no money , or
iii)  an enforcement type arrangement by the fathers family .. or maybe even the State/ church?


Three times it has come thru to me That Leonor was a really good mother. 
1)  From her Mother-in-law, with her first born Dina.. and
2)  from her partner Leandro with his two kids and also Joana. 
3)  Her mother also commented on her love for Joana as did others in the community.

So comments about how good she was for 4 of the kids.  We dont know enough yet about the other two

The photographs prove it all.  Must post some more, but not tonight.  Am tired

G'night Red.

'Photographs prove it all'

What arrant nonsense.

[Benice]

Sadie's posts are at least researched and contain information pertaining to the case.    Your posts on the other hand add nothing to the debate and IMO are a clear attempt to disrupt and deflect.

You can always prove me wrong by actually joining in with the debate instead of disrupting the thread with sneering one line comments and goading, unsubstantiated accusations about other posters.

[stephen25000]

Sadie's posts are at least researched and contain information pertaining to the case.    Your posts on the other hand add nothing to the debate and IMO are a clear attempt to disrupt and deflect.

You can always prove me wrong by actually joining in with the debate instead of disrupting the thread with sneering one line comments and goading, unsubstantiated accusations about other posters.

I see, so if other posters such as sadie sneer at me, it's OK ?


From sadie, in reference to what monsters look like, 'Can you send a photo, please Stephen?  '


As to sadie's research that has been shown to be in error on repeated occasions, or haven't you noticed ?

[colombosstogey]

I see, so if other posters such as sadie sneer at me, it's OK ?


From sadie, in reference to what monsters look like, 'Can you send a photo, please Stephen?  '


As to sadie's research that has been shown to be in error on repeated occasions, or haven't you noticed ?

Isnt this the same person who thinks little Joana Cipriano is living in la la land with a nice family somewhere, and how dare we even say her mother had anything to do with her disappearance, I mean how dare you.

There is no way her mother harmed her, Amaral is a monster, a lier, a creep you cant trust a word he says.

Leonor Cipriano is a SAINT a wonderful mother who would never have harmed here beautiful Joana, no way.

She might have SOLD her but would never have killed her. No not at all.

 8-)(--)

[stephen25000]

Isnt this the same person who thinks little Joana Cipriano is living in la la land with a nice family somewhere, and how dare we even say her mother had anything to do with her disappearance, I mean how dare you.

There is no way her mother harmed her, Amaral is a monster, a lier, a creep you cant trust a word he says.

Leonor Cipriano is a SAINT a wonderful mother who would never have harmed here beautiful Joana, no way.

She might have SOLD her but would never have killed her. No not at all.

 8-)(--)

I know.

How dare I  doubt Saint Cipriano.