Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 250788 times)

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Offline John

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1050 on: November 19, 2013, 03:08:15 PM »
There is nothing in the court case to suggest that the food purchased was in the house
and theres nothing to say that Leona or Leandro told them about shoes

That is untrue Anna.  Leandro did give evidence so please explain your reply.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1051 on: November 19, 2013, 03:14:47 PM »
That is untrue Anna.  Leandro did give evidence so please explain your reply.

This trial rests on the testimony of Leonor, Joao and Leandro. I think all three were beaten by Amaral. without their testimonies the very weak case becomes non existent... Leandro said was he was told to say ,,otherwise he would have been arrested and jailed as well..IMO

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1052 on: November 19, 2013, 03:17:40 PM »
I REST MY CASE ROFLMAO....you are so predictable really......

It really isnt worth discussing this with you we all have our own thoughts on Cipriano. Mine have nothing to do with Amaral.

I actually followed this case BEFORE the McCanns child was involved...

Anyway I cant be bothered anymore to discuss this case as its going NO WHERE, after all the appeals the women is still in prison.

Lets hope she stays there to rot in hell.

Amen and goodbye on this thread, as I have better things to do then discuss this with anyone who just wants to push AMARAL all the time.

 8-)(--) enjoy yourselves and lets hope you get her out of prison hey...

If you are going to post a half page diatribe in support of amaral on this thread..as you did...you just might expect someone to post a reply disagreeing with you

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1053 on: November 19, 2013, 03:21:02 PM »
I have removed the comment I directed to Benice and amended the later posts.  I will not however allow false information to be posted by anyone.

Carana, you made the point about the crime scene being unprotected and rightly so.  Going from memory it was about 4 days before the GNR called in the detectives at the PJ.

The point I made earlier was that Leandro and Joana's aunt were asked to identify which shoes belonging to Joana were missing.  None were.

Leandro also gave evidence about the dried milk and the two tins of tuna. In his opinion the shopping was brought home.

Leandro also gave evidence that tools normally kept in the Cipriano home were missing including specifically, a hacksaw.

Could you help me to find those points in Leandro's court testimony?


A testemunha II, companheiro da arguida BB, afirmou que à data dos factos vivia com a arguida BB e com a CC. Declarou que o arguido AA tinha chegado a casa deles na madrugada do dia 12 de Setembro (domingo). A CC estava desde 5ª feira anterior na casa da mãe da testemunha. A arguida BB no domingo foi também à casa da mãe da testemunha, a uma festa de anos, tendo regressado com a CC à Figueira por volta das 18h. Disse também a testemunha que foi à "Pastelaria Célia" com o MM por volta das 21h e que a dada altura apareceu ali o arguido AA a dizer que a CC tinha ido à pastelaria às 8h e ainda não tinha aparecido. Eles foram para casa (não achou nada de estranho na casa) e a testemunha pediu à BB para ir procurar a CC nos vizinhos (mas não sabe se ela foi efectivamente) enquanto ele foi à festa do berbigão ver se a CC por lá estaria e o MM foi dar uma volta por ali a ver se via a menor. O arguido AA ficou em casa a tomar conta dos filhos da testemunha. A testemunha ficou algum tempo na festa do berbigão mas havia muita confusão e veio embora; voltou depois à festa com a BB e o MM à procura da CC e quando estavam a regressar a casa apareceu a D. Ofélia, a saber da CC e a perguntar se já tinham chamado a GNR. Disseram-lhe que não e ela telefonou. No dia seguinte a testemunha disse à BB para ir à GNR. Declarou ainda a testemunha que numa altura em que se encontrou com a arguida BB nas instalações da Polícia Judiciária, a pedido daquela Polícia, mas numa altura em que se encontravam só os dois, a testemunha perguntou à BB o que tinha acontecido e ela então contou-lhe que "tinha dado uma chapada na CC e que o irmão acabou de a matar", tudo "porque ela os tinha visto a ter relações" e também contou que "tinham posto o corpo numa casa velha e que tinha sido o AA a levá-la às costas". Posteriormente, quando a testemunha foi visitar a arguida BB à cadeia de Odemira, ela negou o que tinha dito e referiu-lhe que só tinha afirmado aquelas coisas porque a Polícia Judiciária lhe tinha batido. Questionado sobre se no dia em que a BB lhe tinha confessado ter agredido CC, a mesma apresentava marcas de ter sido batida, nomeadamente se tinha a cara ou os olhos inchados ou vermelhos, a testemunha disse que não. À testemunha foi também perguntado se tinha na sua casa algum serrote, ao que respondeu que sim, que tinha um serrote pequeno de dentes finos, e que quando a Polícia Judiciária lhe perguntou pelo serrote foi procurá-lo e verificou que tinha desaparecido.



The only point that I can find is that when the PJ asked him if he had a saw at home, he'd said that he did but that it had disappeared. There's no indication of when he noticed that it had gone prior to being asked to find it.

Nothing about shoes or shopping being found at home as far as I can see.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1054 on: November 19, 2013, 03:28:14 PM »
I have removed the comment I directed to Benice and amended the later posts. 

How many bad points did you get?

It is against forum rules you know, John, to call someone a liar on here



 >@@(*&) Now who made those rules? 8(0(* 8(>((

T'wasn't you, was it? 8**8:/:

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1055 on: November 19, 2013, 03:45:44 PM »
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P6BYNMt5tPcJ:http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-without-trace-of-joana.html%2Brtp1+joana+without+a+trace&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&ct=clnk


Cipriano Case: Without a Trace of Joana - Updated Video
27 OCTOBER 2008 | POSTED BY JOANA MORAIS LEAVE A COMMENT
Broadcast by RTP1 on the 15/10/2008


The case shocked the country in the late summer of 2004.

Little girl Joana Guerreiro, aged 8, had disappeared from the village of Figueira, near Portimão. Her mother Leonor Cipriano gave the media many interviews where she lamented her daughter's disappearance.

Only a few days after the Polícia Judiciária started the investigations, Leonor and her brother João Cipriano were arrested for homicide. But the story would unravel with even more macabre details. The uncle confessed that he cut the girl into three pieces but never revealed where the body was hidden. As a matter of fact, until today Joana's body hasn't been found, which leads the defense lawyers to still entertain doubts about the child's real destiny.

In this report, João Cipriano, who remained silent throughout the entire trial, broke his silence and gave RTP a written interview. The Polícia Judiciária inspectors who took care of the case also speak out for the first time about one of the most complex investigations that the police force ever faced.

Sem Rasto de Joana - Without a Trace of Joana is a report by journalist Jorge Almeida, with image by Pedro Silveira Ramos, image editing by Paulo Nunes and audio post production by Luís Mateus.

Sem Rasto de Joana - Without a Trace of Joana Video
JoanaMorais.Blip.Tv



Transcript and Translation by Debk

No Trace of Joana

The last time that Joana was seen was as she returned to her house after going to the store for her mother. She had gone to purchase some milk and two cans of tuna. What happened after that has never been explained.

At first, Joana was reported as missing.

Fernando Ferreira, GNR police officer, Portimão:
"We received notice via rádio and went to the Aldeia da Figueira … attending Joana's mother and her boyfriend, Leandro. The objective was to try to obtain the maximum amount of information which could help identify the girl: name, age, height and what she was wearing at the time she disappeared. From there, having this information, we searched the village."

The night of 12 September 2004 was a festival night in the Aldeia da Figueira. The traditional São Miguel party was underway as shown in these amateur videos given to RTP, which show no signs of Joana. But in one scene you can see António Leandro, the girl's stepfather.

The Portimão GNR continued with searches over the following days around the Aldeia da Figueira. Posters about the disappearance were put up. But there were no traces of Joana.

The mother began giving interviews to the media.

Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother:
"Everyone in the café says, 'This is a badly told story. A girl disappearing, suddenly... it was someone from outside who headed for Lisbon and took her in a car.'"

Four days later, the case of the missing 8 year old girl is transferred to the PJ in Portimão. Another four days later, it is transferred to the PJ Directory in Faro. The inspectors had no idea they now had in their hands one of the most complex cases ever confronted.

Guilhermino da Encarnação, Director, PJ Faro:
"In this investigation, we covered about 50,000 kilometers. 2100 official processes were created. We assigned approximately 40 inspectors and requested approximately 40 exams from the Scientific Police Laboratory and the Legal Medical Institute."

Leonor Cipriano continued to give interviews.

Leonor Cipriano: "I'm very sad. I think my daughter is really missing her mother. I just ask that anyone who knows about my daughter, that you don't hurt her. And that you can bring her to me."

Interviewer: "Where do you think your daughter could be right now?"

LC: "There are only guesses. If she is alive, or not, if she's hurt. I don't know, there's no explanation for my daughter… I don't know, I don't know."

Without any clues, the PJ inspectors did find discrepancies. The statements of Joana's mother, the uncle and the other family members do not coincide.

Gonçalo Amaral, Coordinating Inspector PJ (Jan 2007): "In the first statements given to the GNR, the first agency to arrive, it was a badly told story. There were various contradictions amongst certain people, witnesses, who were part of the family group where Joana lived. Based on these contradictions, there arose at a certain time the need for a new interrogation of these individuals, with all these witnesses, at the same time, at the police headquarters, such that they couldn't confer between themselves, and with the principal objective to understand whether the girl had, or had not, returned home. From there, it was proved that the girl had returned home. That is, it was a lie, there was a simulation of a disappearance. From there, it was necessary to determine what had happened."

Leonor is taken in by the PJ on the 21 September, eleven days after her daughter disappeared. The girl's uncle, João Cipriano, remained free for one more day but was also arrested under suspicion of homicide.

In the next few days, João took the PJ inspectors to dozens of different locations to point out Joana's body. But the body was not found in any of those places.

Gonçalo Amaral: "At that time, it became, as if it were a fact, to the police that she was playing with us … She was sending a message, a message to perhaps say that the body was cut up or the body no longer existed. But, at the same time, all the diligences constituted evidence. This permitted us, as would come to happen in the trial, to speak about them, because they were diligences in which we participated and not witness statements of the arguidos. We aren't talking about declarations by arguidos, we are talking about giving witness to the diligences that we did and why we did these diligences and went to these places. On the other hand, it would not have happened, for him to indicate where to find the body or the rest of the body or pieces of the body and we then didn't go. We always had to go. And that's what happened."

The PJ's theory was that the body was fed to the pigs, a theory that was not proven in court. Shocked by this macabre story, hundreds of locals invaded the village searching for answers. The same answers for which the PJ were searching. Why was Joana killed? And where is her body?

Guilhermino da Encarnação: "In principal, this is a disappearance. And this crime is always, excuse me, this crime doesn't have a juridic framework but could have behind it a series of crimes, a kidnapping, an abduction, human trafficking, criminal associations, so that any of these crimes could be behind a disappearance. And the complexity begins right there."

Leonor and her brother confessed the crime to the PJ. João Cipriano even participated in a video reconstitution where he explained with the kitchen stool, how the girl was killed in a beating and where she hit her head against the wall. The images filmed by the PJ were shown in court against the protest of the defense attorneys.

Sara Rosado, João Cipriano's lawyer: "I imagine that all the pressure surrounding this process, generated that, those declarations, as well as others in opposite and various directions, with other details, with other facts. As for the rest, the version that you find constituted in the video doesn't even adhere to the accusation. That is, the actual accusation didn't even follow this theory if you examine certain details. And, in fact, only the pressure that … one of these was the enormous pressure on everyone, including the arguidos who were arrested and so…"

RTP requested authorization from the Portimão Court to emit in this report a short excerpt of the video but the judge in charge denied the request invoking the "image rights" of those who appear in the video.

João Cipriano also directed a photographic reconstitution where, with the help of a mannequin, he explained how he cut Joana's body into three parts.

According to the accusations from the Public Ministry, the three body pieces were placed in black sacks in the small refrigerator during the first few hours. In the various exams done by technicians from the Scientific Police Lab at Joana's house, human blood was found in one of the drawers inside the refrigerator. But DNA tests did not prove that the blood was Joana's.

Gonçalo Amaral: "It is just one of the versions that was given, and we continue to find viable and credible because blood was found in a chink on one of the refrigerator drawers. A drop of blood in the drawer. Someone opens [the refrigerator] and lets some blood run. The blood ran into the drawer and was cleaned, so it only remained in the chinks, in the areas that are difficult to clean. The explanation was necessary given the circumstances in which the homicide occurred, as this was not a prepared or planned homicide, it was a homicide "in loco." It happened, in the way everyone knows, and they had to hide the body. It's viable and an alternative that they may have used and tried, during the first phase while thinking about what to do with the body, to hide the body in the refrigerator."

During the trial, it was also proven that the body pieces would only have fit in the refrigerator if that drawer in which they found human blood had been removed from the refrigerator.

Sara Rosado: "The doctor who attended the diligences and testified in court affirmed that, very tightly, [the body] would fit. But only by removing the drawer. There was blood found on the back of the alleged drawer, having removed the drawer, but the doctor said the arguidos were surprised with this. It was an idea that had never occurred to them. So I don't think anything like this happened."

Many more vestiges of blood were found in Joana's house. Using ultraviolet light, they found blood on the walls by the door: traces of facial and hand impressions from a child of the family, but which could not be proved to be Joana's. Also by the light switch, near the front door, there was found a bit of blood from Ruben, Joana's younger brother who also lived in the house.

João Grade, Leonor Cipriano's second lawyer (former lawyer): "There was not blood in so many different areas... there were various exams done... just vestiges of human blood, which is normal. A housewife only has to cut herself peeling potatoes while watching a soap opera, only has to have a cut, to have blood, it just has to fall on the ground, it has to be cleaned as anyone of us would clean, and then with rigorous exams you could conclude that there were vestiges of blood. It doesn't say anything. In any of our houses, there could be blood like this."

On the floor of the house and on a mop handle, there were found a mixture of human and animal blood. These exams were also inconclusive.

Allegedly, the exams did not produce results because Leonor washed the house with gasoline because the house was infected with ticks. A doubtful motive for PJ who found the house filthy with dirty dishes in the sink. Except for some walls which were cleaned. As soon as the first suspicions arose, the house should have been isolated.

Gonçalo Amaral: "You can tell that the house had been cleaned, that area where the blood was found had been cleaned. It had been cleaned with petroleum purchased by Leonor on the day she left the Portimão police station. There was an attempt, that you might say worked well, to inhibit any laboratory results. As many vestiges as possible were obtained, given the circumstances, and the conclusion is that it was human blood. According to the court, and I agree, something serious happened in that house, on that day. And the conclusion was that it was a homicide."

Another piece of evidence found at Joana's house by the PJ were the red shoes that Joana was supposed to be wearing the day she disappeared. The PJ believe that the mother and uncle forgot to hide the shoes, just as they did the purchases from the store. The posters put up by the family said that she was wearing red shoes.

Sara Rosado: "No one knows what the child was wearing, especially the shoes."

In February 2005, photographs were published of Leonor with significant bruising (Marinho Pinto Expresso Newspaper Article). The trial will begin soon of four inspectors charged with torture, and Gonçalo Amaral of the crime of false witness and failure to denounce [inappropriate police behaviour].


Guilhermino da Encarnação: "This is extremely difficult because, in 30 years of criminal investigation, I've never seen the confession of such a serious crime without the arguidos saying they were tortured, attacked or raped so that this, for us police officers, and I tell you, unfortunately, it has become the norm, natural. Therefore I don't give it a lot of credence."

Leonor and João opted to remain silent throughout the entire trial. In November 2005 they were charged with qualified homicide and hiding a cadaver. Leonor was condemned to 20 years and 4 months in prison, and João to 19 years and 2 months. The three jury members and four judges felt that the brother and sister did not intend to kill the child but gave, as proven, that the body was dismembered though they were not convinced it was kept in the refrigerator. Nor was it proven that the child was killed because she caught the mother and her brother having sex. The defense attorneys and the Public Ministry presented an appeal, reducing the penalty to 16 years and 8 month,

With a lot of doubts still to be clarified, Leonor's attorney presented another appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

João Grade:"It's more than frustrating that we do not know what happened. We have this other child who disappeared 10 years ago, when eight years old, and now has returned at eighteen years old. We don't know whether Joana is going to appear twenty years from now, or four years from now, alive or dead, I don't know."

RTP wanted to talk to Leonor and João, currently serving their sentences in the Odimera and Carregeira prisons. Leonor sent a signed letter, where she agreed to give an interview. Two days after making a request to the Prison Director, that service sent us a newly signed letter when Leonor rescinded her agreement because of "lack of understanding".

João Cipriano agreed to give his first interview, a written interview wherein he proclaimed his innocence. "I did nothing to my niece, Joana Guerreiro. I am innocent. I was threatened with knives to make that video that was shown in court. But it is all lies. The PJ came almost every day to the Olhão prison where I was held to ask me where Joana was. And I, afraid of beatings, kept saying she was here or there, but it was a lie. My sister told me that Joana was fine. She told me that she had sold Joana to a foreign couple."

It remains to be known, what was Joana's destiny.

RTP 2007

Video no longer on J Morais blip tv account
Cached article linked....anyone else unable to access Joana Morais' blog? >>>

joana-morais.blogspot.com
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:13:45 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1056 on: November 19, 2013, 04:07:41 PM »
@ Red

Thanks. But the shoes/shopping story is in an article.

GA doesn't mention these points in his court testimony in the murder trial.


A testemunha CC3 , coordenador de investigação criminal da P.J., declarou que começaram a investigar o caso passados 9 dias do desaparecimento da CC, sendo que o caso estava classificado como crime de sequestro/rapto. Tomou conhecimento das declarações prestadas na GNR e visionou as entrevistas televisivas, estranhando logo a postura da mãe, que vestia de preto e parecia estar a mentir, sendo que falava da filha no passado. Começaram a tomar declarações e decidiram ir examinar a casa da BB. Quando lá chegaram viram que o interior da habitação tinha sido lavado, sendo que tal lavagem contrastava com o desleixo de limpeza e arrumação do resto da casa, mas mesmo assim ainda encontraram vestígios hemáticos no chão, nas paredes, no balde e esfregona e na sola de umas sapatilhas que estavam na sala - a testemunha confirmou o auto de busca e apreensão de fls. 173. Quando o resultado dos exames foi conclusivo no sentido de que esses vestígios eram de sangue humano e mistura de sangue humano e animal, detiveram os arguidos, tendo o AA sido detido em Cacela. Declarou também que com o auxílio do arguido AA procederam à reconstituição dos factos como consta do auto de fls. 273 ss, cujo teor confirmou pois que esteve presente na diligência. Confirmou que a configuração da casa é a que consta da planta de fls. 294 e que a porta que dá acesso à rua tem um manípulo do lado exterior que permite a entrada imediata na residência. Disse ainda que na sequência desta reconstituição, e seguindo indicações do arguido AA, procuraram o corpo da menor num aterro de terra e noutros locais da Mexilhoeira Grande, numa lixeira, em Poço Barreto, nos carros acidentados existentes na sucata do padrasto do II e em Silves, locais onde procuraram exaustivamente mas sem êxito. Confirmou ainda a pesquisa pela técnica denominada Projectina de vestígios na sala da casa da arguida BB, de onde resultou o apuramento dos sinais fotografados nos autos a fls. 896 ss. A testemunha confirmou também o auto de busca e apreensão junto aos autos de fls. 578 a 580 (arca frigorífica) e que no interior da arca foi recolhido um vestígio hemático da espécie humana, realçando que este vestígio de sangue humano foi recolhido no interior da gaveta, concretamente no painel de trás da segunda gaveta da arca.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1057 on: November 19, 2013, 04:15:28 PM »

That's the trouble with Trial by Media.  There are so many made up stories that in the end you don't know what is true and what isn't.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1058 on: November 19, 2013, 04:20:25 PM »
@ Red

Thanks. But the shoes/shopping story is in an article.

GA doesn't mention these points in his court testimony in the murder trial.


A testemunha CC3 , coordenador de investigação criminal da P.J., declarou que começaram a investigar o caso passados 9 dias do desaparecimento da CC, sendo que o caso estava classificado como crime de sequestro/rapto. Tomou conhecimento das declarações prestadas na GNR e visionou as entrevistas televisivas, estranhando logo a postura da mãe, que vestia de preto e parecia estar a mentir, sendo que falava da filha no passado. Começaram a tomar declarações e decidiram ir examinar a casa da BB. Quando lá chegaram viram que o interior da habitação tinha sido lavado, sendo que tal lavagem contrastava com o desleixo de limpeza e arrumação do resto da casa, mas mesmo assim ainda encontraram vestígios hemáticos no chão, nas paredes, no balde e esfregona e na sola de umas sapatilhas que estavam na sala - a testemunha confirmou o auto de busca e apreensão de fls. 173. Quando o resultado dos exames foi conclusivo no sentido de que esses vestígios eram de sangue humano e mistura de sangue humano e animal, detiveram os arguidos, tendo o AA sido detido em Cacela. Declarou também que com o auxílio do arguido AA procederam à reconstituição dos factos como consta do auto de fls. 273 ss, cujo teor confirmou pois que esteve presente na diligência. Confirmou que a configuração da casa é a que consta da planta de fls. 294 e que a porta que dá acesso à rua tem um manípulo do lado exterior que permite a entrada imediata na residência. Disse ainda que na sequência desta reconstituição, e seguindo indicações do arguido AA, procuraram o corpo da menor num aterro de terra e noutros locais da Mexilhoeira Grande, numa lixeira, em Poço Barreto, nos carros acidentados existentes na sucata do padrasto do II e em Silves, locais onde procuraram exaustivamente mas sem êxito. Confirmou ainda a pesquisa pela técnica denominada Projectina de vestígios na sala da casa da arguida BB, de onde resultou o apuramento dos sinais fotografados nos autos a fls. 896 ss. A testemunha confirmou também o auto de busca e apreensão junto aos autos de fls. 578 a 580 (arca frigorífica) e que no interior da arca foi recolhido um vestígio hemático da espécie humana, realçando que este vestígio de sangue humano foi recolhido no interior da gaveta, concretamente no painel de trás da segunda gaveta da arca.

pass.....the post I put up was a verbatim transcript and indepndently translated from an RTP documentary......its not available to check the context.....perhaps it was established early on the child had returned home, along with the shopping, so was not an issue....bigger issues being on the table!  Her wearing red shoes was put on the posters Leonor held up, so...again....never mind..catch you later
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:24:51 PM by Redblossom »

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1059 on: November 19, 2013, 08:05:09 PM »
pass.....the post I put up was a verbatim transcript and indepndently translated from an RTP documentary......its not available to check the context.....perhaps it was established early on the child had returned home, along with the shopping, so was not an issue....bigger issues being on the table!  Her wearing red shoes was put on the posters Leonor held up, so...again....never mind..catch you later
Yep they were on the posters, but seems they were not in the court records, is that correct Carana?  So just a media myth again?  No shoes to convict on, then.

What about the food?  I thought that I had read that Joana Went to Celias Pastilaria, 420 metres away to fetch a cake for Leandro ... but it seems it was just ordinary food shopping?

On her return she was seen going up the steps to the lovely new modern church, in the centre of Figueira.  It was dark and it was reported that she had 200 metres to go to her home.

Plenty of opportunity to have abducted her, if someone wanted to .... either in the area around the church, or on the last 200 metres home.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1060 on: November 19, 2013, 08:32:24 PM »
I've just found a reference to the shoes issue.

BB1 (one of Leadro's sisters).
Na 2ª feira de manhã (dia 13), por volta das 14h, a testemunha foi ver a BB. Em casa estavam também o AA e o II. Nessa altura a BB referiu-lhe como é que a CC estava vestida e calçada quando desapareceu. Mais tarde, a testemunha deparou com os sapatos que a BB tinha dito que a CC tinha calçados e confrontou a BB com isso, tendo ela respondido que então a CC devia ter trocado de sapatos e que tinha levado as chinelas. Porém, posteriormente, a testemunha encontrou uma das chinelas debaixo do sofá da sala e a outra chinela no quarto. Procurou o calçado da CC e encontrou em casa todos os sapatos, sandálias e chinelas que ela usava nesse Verão.

This is what I think it says (paraphrasing). Leandro's sister went to see Leonor at the house at around 2pm. Leandro and João were also there. Leonor said what clothes and shoes Joana had been wearing. Later, the sister found the shoes in the house and asked Leonor about it, who said she must have changed shoes and gone out in "chinelas" (slippers/flipflops?). Later, the sister found one of the flipflops under the sofa and the other in the room (not sure which room). She searched for all her footwear and found all the shoes, sandals and slipper/flipflops that she had worn that summer in the house.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1061 on: November 19, 2013, 08:50:23 PM »
Yep they were on the posters, but seems they were not in the court records, is that correct Carana?  So just a media myth again?  No shoes to convict on, then.

What about the food?  I thought that I had read that Joana Went to Celias Pastilaria, 420 metres away to fetch a cake for Leandro ... but it seems it was just ordinary food shopping?

On her return she was seen going up the steps to the lovely new modern church, in the centre of Figueira.  It was dark and it was reported that she had 200 metres to go to her home.


Plenty of opportunity to have abducted her, if someone wanted to .... either in the area around the church, or on the last 200 metres home.

The café/shop owner said she'd been in the shop to buy a carton of milk and two tins of tuna at around 8.20-8.30 
A testemunha NN, proprietária da "Pastelaria ...", declarou que no dia 12 de Setembro a CC apareceu na pastelaria, pelas 8h 20m / 8 h 30m, a comprar um pacote de leite e duas latas de atum.

And the lady having a ciggie out her window saw her at around 8.30-840, with a bag in her hand, climbing the steps near the market heading towards home.

A testemunha AA3, relatou que no dia 12 de Setembro, pelas 8h 30m / 8h 40m, estava a janela de sua casa, a fumar, quando viu a CC, com um saco na mão, a subir as escadas na proximidade do mercado, em direcção a casa.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 08:54:09 PM by Carana »

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1062 on: November 19, 2013, 08:58:56 PM »
I've just found a reference to the shoes issue.

BB1 (one of Leadro's sisters).
Na 2ª feira de manhã (dia 13), por volta das 14h, a testemunha foi ver a BB. Em casa estavam também o AA e o II. Nessa altura a BB referiu-lhe como é que a CC estava vestida e calçada quando desapareceu. Mais tarde, a testemunha deparou com os sapatos que a BB tinha dito que a CC tinha calçados e confrontou a BB com isso, tendo ela respondido que então a CC devia ter trocado de sapatos e que tinha levado as chinelas. Porém, posteriormente, a testemunha encontrou uma das chinelas debaixo do sofá da sala e a outra chinela no quarto. Procurou o calçado da CC e encontrou em casa todos os sapatos, sandálias e chinelas que ela usava nesse Verão.

This is what I think it says (paraphrasing). Leandro's sister went to see Leonor at the house at around 2pm. Leandro and João were also there. Leonor said what clothes and shoes Joana had been wearing. Later, the sister found the shoes in the house and asked Leonor about it, who said she must have changed shoes and gone out in "chinelas" (slippers/flipflops?). Later, the sister found one of the flipflops under the sofa and the other in the room (not sure which room). She searched for all her footwear and found all the shoes, sandals and slipper/flipflops that she had worn that summer in the house.
Is there an actual signed statement by Leandros sister?  Cos if it is a third party report I have no faith in it.  To many discrepancies and untruths in this case. 

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1063 on: November 19, 2013, 09:08:18 PM »
Is there an actual signed statement by Leandros sister?  Cos if it is a third party report I have no faith in it.  To many discrepancies and untruths in this case.

 I find it too contrived that Leandros sister would be interested in what shoes Joanna was wearing and would search the house to confirm this...its all manufactured evidence

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1064 on: November 19, 2013, 09:10:17 PM »
Is there an actual signed statement by Leandros sister?  Cos if it is a third party report I have no faith in it.  To many discrepancies and untruths in this case.

What I'm quoting is from the Supreme Court document. It's not clear whether these are summaries of written statements, or whether they actually took the stand.