The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[Angelo222]

There's a PJ inspector, who is referred to as "DD"
A testemunha DD, inspector da P.J.

I can't work out who DD1 is supposed to be...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2989.0

One and the same.  There is no DD2.

[Carana]

One and the same.  There is no DD2.

A PJ inspector was Leandro's stepfather???

[Eleanor]

Not quite, she was allowed home each night until her arrest on 25 September.  A policeman was posted at her house to ensure she didn't abscond.

She was not beaten up when she was first interrogated and appeared in court and offered a free confession on the evening of 25 September.

The beating which she later received by the PJ has nothing to do with her original confession.

Oh, so The PJ beat her up for fun, did they?  It must have been a quiet night.

[Carana]

Not quite, she was allowed home each night until her arrest on 25 September.  A policeman was posted at her house to ensure she didn't abscond.

She was not beaten up when she was first interrogated and appeared in court and offered a free confession on the evening of 25 September.

The beating which she later received by the PJ has nothing to do with her original confession.

I didn't say she was beaten in those interrogation days in September. That seems to have happened later. I am questioning the methods used in September.

In the meantime, from what I've found, they were arrested on 21 Sept.

Dia 21 - A mãe, Leonor, e o tio João Cipriano, são detidos.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/atirada-aos-porcos

As detenções de Leonor Cipriano e do irmão, João, foram feitas na quinta-feira passada pelos inspectores da Secção Regional de Combate ao Banditismo da PJ de Faro, que assumiram as investigações do caso no dia 21, oito dias após o desaparecimento.

I've lost the link to this for the moment. I'll add it, when I find it again.

From the other link, João was then released until the next day (22 Sept).

According to this, (p. 4), the decision to take her into pre-trial detention was made on 24 Sept.
No dia 24 de Setembro de 2004, no inquérito 330/04.2JAPTM da comarca de Portimão, foi determinada a prisão preventiva de Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano, indiciada por crimes de ofensa á integridade física qualificada agravada pelo resultado – artigos 143o, 145o, no 1, alínea a) e 146o do Código Penal - e de ocultação de cadáver – artigo 254o, no1 do Código Penal;
http://iscte.pt/~apad/ACED_juristas/maddietrab_ficheiros/Acordao%20Leonor%20Cipriano%20contra%20Goncalo%20e%20outros.%2022Maio2009.pdf


Where did you find that she'd been allowed home every day? Perhaps she was, but I haven't seen that. Was João also released every day as well?

[Angelo222]

Where did you find that she'd been allowed home every day? Perhaps she was, but I haven't seen that. Was João also released every day as well?

Its all in the CdM if you look up the relevant dates.  Yes, Joao was allowed home too.

Good work on the research too Carana.  Very fair imo

[Angelo222]

Oh, so The PJ beat her up for fun, did they?  It must have been a quiet night.

It was an attempt to get the full story from her Eleanor.  Hitting her with a roll of cardboard and a phone book wasn't exactly heavy duty torture was it??

[Carana]

Its all in the CdM if you look up the relevant dates.  Yes, Joao was allowed home too.

Good work on the research too Carana.  Very fair imo

Thanks Angelo. Could you post the links to the articles in question? I simply haven't come across them.

[Carana]

One and the same.  There is no DD2.

I never said that there was a DD2.

DD is a police inspector. Ticked.

But who is DD1?

From my post on the MM thread:

In the Supreme Court doc, the "stepfather" is called MM.
A testemunha MM, padrasto do II...  he would seem to be the "stepfather" to whom João had confessed at the PJ HQ.

But then, the same document refers to the stepfather as DD1:
11. 3. 5. Depoimento indirecto
Duas testemunhas - o companheiro da recorrente, II, e o padrasto deste, DD1
but I can't find a witness statement from any DD1.

Have a look at this thread... I find it very confusing.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2989.0

[Mr Gray]

Are you being purposely antagonistic towards the facts in this case Dave?  She confessed to the investigative magistrate before being indicted and remanded. Surely even you can't be that thick??

Try reading it again.

However , Joana's mother , Leonor Cipriano , who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00 , came to confess to the murder of her daughter . The woman however justified that it was an accident , saying that she had given a slap to the child who had hit her head on a wall, falling unconscious.
Leonor Cipriano said to have been bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter , so decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag . She then asked the help of her brother to dispose of the body of her own daughter , which she said came to pass at a site in the vicinity of the house.


She was HEARD Dave!!

We wil start with the investigative magistrate...what is your source for Leonors confession

[Eleanor]

It was an attempt to get the full story from her Eleanor.  Hitting her with a roll of cardboard and a phone book wasn't exactly heavy duty torture was it??

Oh, I see.  You agree with that, do you?  Even though she had apparently already confessed.  Let's get the gory details, like.
Don't make me laugh.  Covered in bruises to the point where she was nearly blind.  What fun that must have been.
But I knew that eventually one of you would come out and say that this was acceptable in the name of Justice.

[Carana]

DD1 is referred to as Leandro's stepfather (with no witness statement that I can find), yet so is MM, who is also referred to as a half-brother (in press reports) and a "friend" in the SC doc.

How old was MM at the time?

[Mr Gray]

It was an attempt to get the full story from her Eleanor.  Hitting her with a roll of cardboard and a phone book wasn't exactly heavy duty torture was it??

well amnesty international think it was and for you to suggest it wasn't is ridiculous

[Mr Gray]

It was an attempt to get the full story from her Eleanor.  Hitting her with a roll of cardboard and a phone book wasn't exactly heavy duty torture was it??

This forum is The UK Justice Forum and I don't think there is any place for someone who supports torture. You need to be on a fascist forum not a justice forum

[Carana]

There are several Portuguese posters on this forum who could help to clarify any misunderstandings due to language.

Could they help, if any read here?

[Anna]

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006701&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE&page=2

quite an interesting post by Diario de Noticias- (daily news)
Leandro speaking...................................................... 07.05.2005
"A journalist, when interviewing me, suggested that I would have helped to cut up the body, with material that I not even  have"

Well Then. where did the saw and knife come from?

I am going through the news from the time of the disappearance looking for a particular statement by Leandro which I have still not found