The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[sadie]

You suggested that you has evidence of someone's innocence. I just assumed that you would have let the PJ know. And don't worry, they will have somebody who speaks English or who can read English.

Open minded I have gone back 5 pages and I dont have a clue what you are talking about.  I dont believe I have mentioned having any evidence of anybodies innocence.  TBH, I would have avoided passing anything to Amaral, cos I have never trusted him.  Seems my judgement was right cos he is a convicted perjurer (liar)

And by the way, I didn't ask for details of your evidence, just for a précis of your discussions. Had you have spoken to them then just a "they said they were looking into it" would have sufficed and would not have been ex-judicy. But thank you for confirming that you have not provided the PJ with any evidence. But please don't find it strange that I therefore doubt you have any evidence of their innocence.

I am sorry but I do not intend giving anyone on here a precis of any of my discussions with SY ... or anything that I have found that gets anywhere near the man I think is behind the abductions.  No offence meant but I just aint doing that.

You haven't read what I have posted and your last sentence doesn't make sense becos of that.  Sorry mate.

[sadie]

You said that Joana Cipriano was almost certainly abducted. And therefore I assumed you believed Leonor and João Cipriano must be innocent. I thought meant you had evidence of their innocence. I guess you don't then. That's fine.

Also I didn't ask of your discussions with SY, only with the PJ with regard to the Cipriano case. But as you have already stated, you have had no discussions whatsoever with the PJ. Again, that's fine. I just wanted clarification that you had no evidence of  Leonor and João Ciprianos innocence and neither had you had any communication with the PJ

My evidence is that the PJ had no case against them.

In order to try and produce evidence they had to resort to Torture.  Brutal torture.  It is NOT evidence when it is tortured out 

NOT EVIDENCE at all.

Because the PJ had to resort to torture means that they did NOT HAVE A CASE.  The Ciprianos are almost certainly innocent, which is what I said before



And I will shout it from the rooftops if you like.

The PJ did NOT have a case against the Ciprianos. 

They had to manufacture "SO-CALLED EVIDENCE" BY TORTURE.

Therefore The Ciprianos are almost certainly innocent

[sadie]

Ok, you have clarified this it's only your opinion. That's all I was wanting to know.

You have to open your mind to logic, OP, then you stand a chance of understanding it.

No reason for the PJ to torture if they had a case against Leonor and Joao

Cos they DID NOT have a case they had to try and make some evidence.  What better than a confession or two?

So they tortured them, until they gave them what they wanted.  Everyone breaks under serious torture.



.......  false claim re no evidence removed. .....

Do you condone torture OP ?

[Kazcutt]

You have to open your mind to logic, OP, then you stand a chance of understanding it.

No reason for the PJ to torture if they had a case against Leonor and Joao

Cos they DID NOT have a case they had to try and make some evidence.  What better than a confession or two?

So they tortured them, until they gave them what they wanted.  Everyone breaks under serious torture.

 .......  false claim re no evidence removed. .....

Do you condone torture OP ?

I thought someone has been done for Joanna's kidnapp so why are the mother and her brother still in prison ? Can they sue for wrong arrest ? I can't understand how the brother has to serve all them years

[AnneGuedes]

I would have avoided passing anything to Amaral, cos I have never trusted him.  Seems my judgement was right cos he is a convicted perjurer (liar)

I am sorry but I do not intend giving anyone on here a precis of any of my discussions with SY ... or anything that I have found that gets anywhere near the man I think is behind the abductions.  No offence meant but I just aint doing that.

You haven't read what I have posted and your last sentence doesn't make sense becos of that.  Sorry mate.

Well if you've managed to discuss with SY your liar, criminal, perjurer  Amaral obsession etc., why are you losing time and energy on this forum ?

[sadie]

Well if you've managed to discuss with SY your liar, criminal, perjurer  Amaral obsession etc., why are you losing time and energy on this forum ?

It wasn't about Amaral.  It was about what happened to Madeleine after PdL ... and who was behind it.
LOL !

Come dancing recording calls ... sorry   XX

[icabodcrane]

Is there a court transcript of Leonor Cipriano's trial  ?   ...  where she was convicted by a jury of brutally murdering her eight year old daughter  ? 

To those who hysterically insist this woman is innocent  ...  how could you possibly know   unless   you are privy to the evidence that was produced in court,  in it's entirity ?

[John]

Is there a court transcript of Leonor Cipriano's trial  ?   ...  where she was convicted by a jury of brutally murdering her eight year old daughter  ? 

To those who hysterically insist this woman is innocent  ...  how could you possibly know   unless   you are privy to the evidence that was produced in court,  in it's entirity ?

This is the closest we have I understand.

www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html

[sadie]

Of course I don't. The court accepted the evidence though. Until there is

Evidence of their innocence

(See I can shout too  )
that a court accepts proves their innocence, then they are guilty according to the law. You have already confirmed you have no evidence of their innocence. So that's all I needed to know.

Stop saying such silly things OpenClosedmind.  The envidence is in the situation below

The PJ had no evidence.  If they had then they would NOT have had to torture Leonor, Joao and Leandro.

The whole court case was totally unsafe.  The only so called evidence was what the PJ invented and put the words into the mouths of the people they tortured.

Wonder how you would feel if you were extremely tortured and words put into your mouth that you had to sign for to escape the torture?  Then you were banged up in jail for was it 18 years for a crime that you didn't commit ?


Once again I assert that it is almost certain that Leonor and Joao did not murder Leonors daughter, Joana .  From the evidence I have provided it seems they were stitched up in an unsafe case.  The words of the PJ were taken as gospel.

I wonder how you would feel if it happened to you Openmind?   Dont they matter? 
 Cos they are only peasant types?  Cos you prefer to believe rogue cops?

Sadly, your mind is closed Openmind.  I wonder why?  There has to be a reason  >@@(*&)

[icabodcrane]

Stop saying such silly things OpenClosedmind.  The envidence is in the situation below

The PJ had no evidence.  If they had then they would NOT have had to torture Leonor, Joao and Leandro.

The whole court case was totally unsafe.  The only so called evidence was what the PJ invented and put the words into the mouths of the people they tortured.

Wonder how you would feel if you were extremely tortured and words put into your mouth that you had to sign for to escape the torture?  Then you were banged up in jail for was it 18 years for a crime that you didn't commit ?


Once again I assert that it is almost certain that Leonor and Joao did not murder Leonors daughter, Joana .  They were stitched up in an unsafe case.  The words of the PJ were taken as gospel.

I wonder how you would feel if it happened to you Openmind?   Dont they matter? 
 Cos they are only peasant types?  Cos you prefer to believe rogue cops?

Sadly, your mind is closed Openmind.  I wonder why?  There has to be a reason  >@@(*&)

Is there a court transcript of Leonor Cipriano's trial  ?  ...  have you read it  ?

If you have not,  then how can you possibly know what  'evidence'  was put before the jury that found this woman guilty of the murder of her eiight year old child  ?

[Serendipity]

Is there a court transcript of Leonor Cipriano's trial  ?   ...  where she was convicted by a jury of brutally murdering her eight year old daughter  ? 

To those who hysterically insist this woman is innocent  ...  how could you possibly know   unless   you are privy to the evidence that was produced in court,  in it's entirity ?

Court transcript here: http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano

[Aiofe]

Ihave no idea what happened in this case. I do not know the evidence, or any details of the trial.

But it is worth considering the large number of people who languished in a similar position in the UK over the last fifty years, now proven to have been framed by the police for one reason or another.

It happens in every justice system.

[colombosstogey]

Well all you have to do Luz is show us the official statements quashing Amaral's conviction - and also maybe explain why Amaral himself has made no such claim. 

IIRC LC was found guilty of mis-identifying her torturers.  The fact that torture took place, as established in a court of law, was never in question - only the correct identification of the torturers - which has still to be established.

This is OLD NEWS.

It was in the papers in April I think.

She LIED. My friend lives in Portugal and told me ages ago the witch was condemned to further time, but should have been given life....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

[Aiofe]

This is OLD NEWS.

It was in the papers in April I think.

She LIED. My friend lives in Portugal and told me ages ago the witch was condemned to further time, but should have been given life....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

Old news, but still of current interest. She was tortures in the Portuguese Justice system; Amaral was convicted of perjury and is still a convicted felon.

[colombosstogey]

To be honest I thought the THREAD was to do with Maddy not Cipriano.

She was an evil witch who killed her daughter.

The funny thing about all this is Amaral was not even the lead detective lol.....

The pair were found guilty by a JURY. The brother confessed.

Can we please move on about this sad case. I child was brutally murdered possibly fed to the pigs.

Its obsfucation and dragged out constantly by pro mccanns to try and disgrace AMARAL WHO like i said wasnt even on the lead case.

ALSO Amaral did do something wrong he tried to protect the men who this women had accused.

HE HAS SERVED HIS SENTENCE can we move on........please. LOL...

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html