Author Topic: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?  (Read 58960 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #105 on: May 19, 2015, 09:41:19 AM »
A lawyer will only advise a client not to answer police questions when there is can overwhelming reason to do so.  It is not the default approach you appear to think it is.

If it depends on the circumstances ... I consider that in the circumstances, Kate McCann made the correct decision.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Online Eleanor

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #106 on: May 19, 2015, 09:50:25 AM »

If it hadn't been for the publicity and high profile of the case I suspect that Kate wouldn't have been allowed to have a lawyer present initially.
Everything about it must have been incredibly frightening when you don't even know if what you say is being interpreted correctly.
Add to that the knowledge of previous abuse of witnesses, keeping your mouth shut was the only option.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #107 on: May 19, 2015, 09:54:15 AM »
A judge will sentence after consultation with both prosecuting and defence counsel in chambers.  If the police offer a deal that will be reflected in said sentence.

Really? 

(1) Trials in Portugal are bench or jury trials.  This means that sentencing will be agreed by three judges.

(2) Plea bargains are not recognised in Portugal.  Carlos would have known this.  So KM would have been in the hands of the court as regards sentencing. 


Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #108 on: May 19, 2015, 09:58:59 AM »
Really? 

(1) Trials in Portugal are bench or jury trials.  This means that sentencing will be agreed by three judges.

(2) Plea bargains are not recognised in Portugal.  Carlos would have known this.  So KM would have been in the hands of the court as regards sentencing.

Interesting point; so he must have taken leave of his senses for a few minutes?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Online Eleanor

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #109 on: May 19, 2015, 10:00:37 AM »
Perhaps Carlos meant that Kate could have been arrested and locked up until she appeared in Court.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #110 on: May 19, 2015, 10:07:35 AM »
Interesting point; so he must have taken leave of his senses for a few minutes?

My dear Alice - do you mind if I take that point seriously for a moment?  Terribly boring I know but...

My view is that Carlos was somewhat out of his depth, and inexperienced in such matters.  Although the criminal process in Portugal is rather more collaborative than the UK system, the police and prosecutor are still interested in getting convictions and not above a bit of fishing.

The PJ also "bent" procedure - they do not have to reveal everything they know to the arguido or representative but they are not allowed to lie.  Which the clearly did judging from questions 43 to 47.   


Offline Carana

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #111 on: May 19, 2015, 10:13:33 AM »
Interesting point; so he must have taken leave of his senses for a few minutes?

I've no idea what type of cases he was previously involved in.

The superwoof clips could have seemed quite impressive (the translated transcription of Grime's commentary contained a major error) and simply waving a "damning" forensic report in the air (which he may not have understood even if he'd been able to read it without the vital bit missing in the translation) could have genuinely made him think that there really was strong evidence.

Offline Carana

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #112 on: May 19, 2015, 10:18:24 AM »
My dear Alice - do you mind if I take that point seriously for a moment?  Terribly boring I know but...

My view is that Carlos was somewhat out of his depth, and inexperienced in such matters.  Although the criminal process in Portugal is rather more collaborative than the UK system, the police and prosecutor are still interested in getting convictions and not above a bit of fishing.

The PJ also "bent" procedure - they do not have to reveal everything they know to the arguido or representative but they are not allowed to lie.  Which the clearly did judging from questions 43 to 47.   


There are also what I find to be leading questions, some of which weren't far off the "when did you stop beating your mother"-type ones. I'll find an example for you, as I'd be interested in your opinion.

Offline Montclair

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2015, 10:19:07 AM »
My dear Alice - do you mind if I take that point seriously for a moment?  Terribly boring I know but...

My view is that Carlos was somewhat out of his depth, and inexperienced in such matters.  Although the criminal process in Portugal is rather more collaborative than the UK system, the police and prosecutor are still interested in getting convictions and not above a bit of fishing.

The PJ also "bent" procedure - they do not have to reveal everything they know to the arguido or representative but they are not allowed to lie.  Which the clearly did judging from questions 43 to 47.   

The PJ did not lie! Those questions were drawn up not just by the police investigators. They were prepared under the authority of the Ministério Público, who was also in possession of the preliminary reports from the forensic lab, which confirmed Madeleine's DNA in the car boot.

Dr. Carlos Pinto Abreu was not out of his depth, he is a very experienced lawyer. The matter is that he saw the evidence gathered in the case, the evidence that somehow was changed or let us say manipulated in the end, in order to get the McCanns off the hook.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 10:22:31 AM by Montclair »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #114 on: May 19, 2015, 10:20:33 AM »
The PJ did not lie! Those questions were drawn up not just by the police investigators. They were prepared under the authority of the Ministério Público, who was also in possession of the preliminary reports from the forensic lab, which confirmed Madeleine's DNA in the car boot.

Preliminary report?

What preliminary report?

Offline Carana

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #115 on: May 19, 2015, 10:26:59 AM »
The PJ did not lie! Those questions were drawn up not just by the police investigators. They were prepared under the authority of the Ministério Público, who was also in possession of the preliminary reports from the forensic lab, which confirmed Madeleine's DNA in the car boot.

Dr. Carlos Pinto Abreu was not out of his depth, he is a very experienced lawyer. The matter is that he saw the evidence gathered in the case, the evidence that somehow was changed or let us say manipulated in the end, in order to get the McCanns off the hook.

Do you mean Lowe's email in which he tried to explain the basics of biology (XX x XY) and the fact that 37 alleles in total belonging to between 3 and 5 people were found?

Offline Carana

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #116 on: May 19, 2015, 10:34:55 AM »
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you DO say will be typed up, scrunched up and rammed down your throat.

- Anonymous.

Online Eleanor

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #117 on: May 19, 2015, 10:35:19 AM »
Do you mean Lowe's email in which he tried to explain the basics of biology (XX x XY) and the fact that 37 alleles in total belonging to between 3 and 5 people were found?

The PJ simply didn't know what they were talking about when it came to DNA.  And they knew it.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #118 on: May 19, 2015, 10:37:06 AM »
A lawyer will only advise a client not to answer police questions when there is can overwhelming reason to do so.  It is not the default approach you appear to think it is.

there was an overwhelming reason...the pj thought kate was guilty

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Does invoking the right to silence carry with it significant risk?
« Reply #119 on: May 19, 2015, 10:41:19 AM »
The PJ simply didn't know what they were talking about when it came to DNA.  And they knew it.

Either they didn't know, or, they did know and flannelled malevolently ...