The phone call

[G-Unit]

I was wondering why Nevill Bamber would ring his son and came up with the possibility that he didn't.  Maybe it was someone else who made that call, someone who wanted Jeremy Bamber to go to White House Farm?

[Caroline]

I was wondering why Nevill Bamber would ring his son and came up with the possibility that he didn't.  Maybe it was someone else who made that call, someone who wanted Jeremy Bamber to go to White House Farm?

You were right the first time - he didn't and no one else could have. Who would said 'other person' be? How come they didn't wait for him to turn up? How could they be sure Bamber wouldn't have called the police and said person would be trapped in the FH. Also, they would risk Bamber realising it wasn't his dad.

[Holly Goodhead]

I was wondering why Nevill Bamber would ring his son and came up with the possibility that he didn't.  Maybe it was someone else who made that call, someone who wanted Jeremy Bamber to go to White House Farm?

This has been suggested previously along with the possibility NB might have been forced to make the call.

I think NB made the call of his own volition.  Reasons:

- no evidence shots had been fired at the time
- as you've pointed out firearms were not stored in accordance with the law
- re above NB was a magistrate
- according to independent witnesses eg CC and the relatives, the Bambers did not discuss SC's illness with anyone
- police cars did not have navigation systems and the road leading up to White House Farm is obscure.  NB may have thought to get JB in loop to make sure they got there.
- According to a relative NB referred to the local police as Dad's Army so it seems he did not have much confidence in them.
- opium poppies were growing on the farm which appear to be somewhat of a mystery in terms of what they were being grown for and for whom
- a small piece of cannabis resin was found in a safe within the farmhouse

[Caroline]

This has been suggested previously along with the possibility NB might have been forced to make the call.

I think NB made the call of his own volition.  Reasons:

- no evidence shots had been fired at the time
- as you've pointed out firearms were not stored in accordance with the law
- re above NB was a magistrate
- according to independent witnesses eg CC and the relatives, the Bambers did not discuss SC's illness with anyone
- police cars did not have navigation systems and the road leading up to White House Farm is obscure.  NB may have thought to get JB in loop to make sure they got there.
- According to a relative NB referred to the local police as Dad's Army so it seems he did not have much confidence in them.
- opium poppies were growing on the farm which appear to be somewhat of a mystery in terms of what they were being grown for and for whom
- a small piece of cannabis resin was found in a safe within the farmhouse

None of those points support a phone call Holly.

[Holly Goodhead]

None of those points support a phone call Holly.

In the absence of a digital recording nothing does. I said I think he made the call and gave my reasons.

[steve_trousers]

As Caroline pointed out, it would have been some risk to take that Jeremy wouldn't realise it was his father.

If the call happened, Jeremy had no reason to lie about it's contents - that his father was asking him to come quickly because Sheila had "gone crazy and got the gun"
it eliminated any possibility of a 3rd party, and all the evidence at the scene proves Sheila wasn't the culprit.

[Holly Goodhead]

In the absence of a digital recording nothing does. I said I think he made the call and gave my reasons.

The other reason I think he made the call is that my interpretation of the physical evidence at soc: blood stains, ejected shell casings, distance of shots, trajectories of wounds and wound tracks, places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained his facial wounds and the perp stood inside the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  This scenario supports NB making a call to JB from the kitchen with SC running upstairs shooting June in bed,  NB dropping the phone running upstairs and SC turning some 90 degrees from facing June in bed to facing NB on the landing.

[Caroline]

The other reason I think he made the call is that my interpretation of the physical evidence at soc: blood stains, ejected shell casings, distance of shots, trajectories of wounds and wound tracks, places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained his facial wounds and the perp stood inside the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  This scenario supports NB making a call to JB from the kitchen with SC running upstairs shooting June in bed,  NB dropping the phone running upstairs and SC turning some 90 degrees from facing June in bed to facing NB on the landing.

It only supports someone trying to escape and if he did manage to get to the phone (which I doubt), an attempt to call the police. The phone off the hook simply supports a staged crime - had he just dropped the handset, the call would have still been connected to Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

It only supports someone trying to escape and if he did manage to get to the phone (which I doubt), an attempt to call the police. The phone off the hook simply supports a staged crime - had he just dropped the handset, the call would have still been connected to Bamber.

Someone trying to escape?  Who and from what?

There's no evidence a call was made or wasn't made.

Yes if NB made the call and just dropped the handset he would still be connected to JB as per the evidence of the tel eng at trial which neither proved nor disproved a call.

[Caroline]

Someone trying to escape?  Who and from what?

There's no evidence a call was made or wasn't made.

Yes if NB made the call and just dropped the handset he would still be connected to JB as per the evidence of the tel eng at trial which neither proved nor disproved a call.

Err Nevill trying to escape being shot by Bamber.

I know there is no evidence of a call - that is what I am saying - just the staged flourish of an off the hook handset.

Jeremy didn't say he heard the handset fall, he said it sounded like the call ended.

[Holly Goodhead]

Err Nevill trying to escape being shot by Bamber.

I know there is no evidence of a call - that is what I am saying - just the staged flourish of an off the hook handset.

Jeremy didn't say he heard the handset fall, he said it sounded like the call ended.

But we know for sure NB sustained 4 x' gsw's upstairs.  We also know he sustained 4 gsw's downstairs and that any one of these immobilised him.  So if JB burst into the bedroom are you saying NB fled the bedroom unscathed?  Where do you think he was when he sustained his upstairs gsw's?   When NB sustained his upstairs gsw's do you think any of the other victims had been shot?

[steve_trousers]

Err Nevill trying to escape being shot by Bamber.

I know there is no evidence of a call - that is what I am saying - just the staged flourish of an off the hook handset.

Jeremy didn't say he heard the handset fall, he said it sounded like the call ended.

yes...but....but.... how would anyone of us now for certain in the heat of the moment what Jeremy heard, he could have been mistaken....

yet another stretch of credulity that some choose to ignore. There never was a phone call, close scrutiny explains that

[Holly Goodhead]

yes...but....but.... how would anyone of us now for certain in the heat of the moment what Jeremy heard, he could have been mistaken....

yet another stretch of credulity that some choose to ignore. There never was a phone call, close scrutiny explains that

What exactly is a stretch of credulity?

[G-Unit]

You were right the first time - he didn't and no one else could have. Who would said 'other person' be? How come they didn't wait for him to turn up? How could they be sure Bamber wouldn't have called the police and said person would be trapped in the FH. Also, they would risk Bamber realising it wasn't his dad.

Do you also reject the evidence that Nevill phoned the police at 03:26?

[steve_trousers]

Hi G-unit, Sorry I know you're asking Caroline the question but It is worth noting - if it was Nevill who called the police at 03:26, he didn't do so by dialling 999, he did so by leafing through the yellow pages looking for the local police stations number. At a time when Sheila had "gone crazy and got the gun".
Why not just dial 999? Because if Jeremy did make 2 calls he couldn't risk speaking to the same operator, who would likely notice it was the same voice as made the other call and casts further doubt on Nevill making the call.

The 03:26 timing is an anachronism which his supporters have pounced on, and suggested that perhaps Sheila hadn't actually "gone crazy and got the gun" yet. If not then why call the police?