Author Topic: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?  (Read 37175 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #195 on: October 24, 2014, 11:14:47 PM »
An american child is home alone on his bed when he sees shadows on his bedroom window and hears noises outside - someone outside trying to gain entry through his bedroom window.
Does he assume it must be one of his parents, and stand as close to the window as possible so they can lift him out?
Or does he exit his bedroom fast and go into the parents bedroom and hide behind clothes inside a closet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRHr0jkqVM

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 11:18:44 PM by pegasus »

Offline sadie

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #196 on: October 25, 2014, 12:16:33 AM »
I just wonder how much these portable foundries cost in PDL.

soldering, melting metal?...I thought I was reading a script from Columbo

Did we not all agree that the doors were left open-unlocked?. Why open shutters- deploy a one man steel works service to make a key( that's all you see driving around PDL) Key making burglars!If the place was being cased, why break in to a flat where it is being monitored constantly? and the children  had the habit of waking up during the night!

Now a more logical approach.... who checked the chimney?

Did we not all agree that the doors were left open-unlocked?.

No we did not agree anything of the sort.

The front door wes locked but not double locked.  It required a key to open it.


deploy a one man steel works service to make a key( that's all you see driving around PDL) Key making burglars!

As a kid, the boys in my neighbourhood were constantly casting tiny toy soldiers and planes etc.  There was little sophistication in the toys then, no money about ... and everyone learned simple crafts.  Some painted them and made a little business selling them on.

My thinking is that as PT is allegedly a poor economy, the kids there would be rather like the kids when I was young, using basic creative crafts to fill their time and enjoy themselves

Starter kits can be bought new for as little as £20 on the internet.



To remind you, several apartments were burgled, with entrance seemingly thru a previously locked front door.  Where did the keys come from?



Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #197 on: October 25, 2014, 12:29:17 AM »
Are you referring to Mr Amaral's film?
Yes an skilled expert in that film does conclude that the window was slid open from the inside.
However that expert is mistaken.
Remember he did not lift the prints himself, he was working from forensic photos of 4th May.
Please feel free to post the stillframe from the film, which shows the forensic "dragons blood" photo of the print which supposedly proves the window was opened from the inside.

No Channel 4 Dispatches experts about the shutter thumb prints being raised from the inside. They shouldn't have been tampering with the crime scene. Why would you try and destroy important evidence? You would say don't touch that it could hold vital clues not have a look at the shutters for me. What the Hell!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 12:38:28 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #198 on: October 25, 2014, 01:07:39 AM »
The noisy front key door

7:02


p.s. I've never seen Gerry looking so nervous when Matt is doing his reconstruction check.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:21:04 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #199 on: October 25, 2014, 01:15:09 AM »
The noisy front key door

7:02


@7.02

Was it double locked or single locked?

Where was the microphone?

Were sound effects used?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #200 on: October 25, 2014, 01:22:23 AM »
@7.02

Was it double locked or single locked?

Where was the microphone?

Were sound effects used?

Gerry says they used the patio door because the front door was noisy and could wake the kids. Haven't you watched it? Strange the front door key was used before his proud father moment and desperate to use the loo.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #201 on: October 25, 2014, 03:46:49 AM »
No Channel 4 Dispatches experts about the shutter thumb prints being raised from the inside. They shouldn't have been tampering with the crime scene. Why would you try and destroy important evidence? You would say don't touch that it could hold vital clues not have a look at the shutters for me. What the Hell!
Prints on the shutter showing the shutter had been manually raised from inside?
That does not make sense. Someone who is inside can simply use the strap to raise the shutter.

So now back to the window. Where is the print on the window which supposedly shows KM opened the window? It can't be her 5 prints on the glass. Do you agree with me that she did not open the window?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #202 on: October 25, 2014, 08:30:10 AM »
Did we not all agree that the doors were left open-unlocked?.

No we did not agree anything of the sort.

The front door wes locked but not double locked.  It required a key to open it.


deploy a one man steel works service to make a key( that's all you see driving around PDL) Key making burglars!

As a kid, the boys in my neighbourhood were constantly casting tiny toy soldiers and planes etc.  There was little sophistication in the toys then, no money about ... and everyone learned simple crafts.  Some painted them and made a little business selling them on.

My thinking is that as PT is allegedly a poor economy, the kids there would be rather like the kids when I was young, using basic creative crafts to fill their time and enjoy themselves

Starter kits can be bought new for as little as £20 on the internet.



To remind you, several apartments were burgled, with entrance seemingly thru a previously locked front door.  Where did the keys come from?

Trouble is lead is not good for making keys...
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2014, 10:11:21 AM »
Prints on the shutter showing the shutter had been manually raised from inside?
That does not make sense. Someone who is inside can simply use the strap to raise the shutter.

So now back to the window. Where is the print on the window which supposedly shows KM opened the window? It can't be her 5 prints on the glass. Do you agree with me that she did not open the window?

Do you wanna know why Gerry and Matt both found the door half-open i.e. in the same position? Because it was meant to be Kate's check at 9:30 not Matt's. Have you ever seen him looking so nervous when Matt is doing his reconstruction? This is when he reveals that it was his first visual check of the week i.e. that proud father moment and he claims minutes later she was taken. The truth is always there. It's about uncovering it.

p.s. what if you are trying to break the shutters?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:19:36 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #204 on: October 25, 2014, 10:14:37 AM »

How much simpler it would have been to force the lock on the front door, or to have left the patio door slightly ajar to be ‘discovered’ on return. 

That would have seamlessly fitted the narrative had there been a tale to be concocted.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #205 on: October 25, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »
Oh, do you really think they made the spare key oin the spot?  ReallY ?

I think they made it elsewhere. 

Easy peasy for someone used to making toy soldiers or even more so for someone working in a foundry.  You can even buy simple metal casting kits on the internet ... but they would need a good heat source Alice.

Yeah giving about 1600 degrees Celsius to melt a lump of steel to make a key from.
And just to pick you up on an earlier point red hot steel only flows when whacked with a forging hammer it cannot be poured.
Off topic of course and just for Alfie
 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
But Alfie old son my facts are right  8((()*/
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline sadie

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #206 on: October 25, 2014, 02:50:45 PM »
Yeah giving about 1600 degrees Celsius to melt a lump of steel to make a key from.
And just to pick you up on an earlier point red hot steel only flows when whacked with a forging hammer it cannot be poured.
Off topic of course and just for Alfie
 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
But Alfie old son my facts are right  8((()*/
I think I said red/white hot.  Steel pours at that temperature, but it has to be handled with great care.


Other metals with a lower melting point might do the job.

Am not sure if Aluminium would be robust enough. but with a suitable additive making it an alloy such a metal could do the job


A forging could be used too.  Then the metal blank would have to be heated to red hot.  However this would be a more complex operation, making a suitably shaped hefty stamping mold first. 

Dont think that method would be sensible for one offs.  Casting is a much more direct and simple operation.  Easier acheived.

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #207 on: October 25, 2014, 03:49:02 PM »
There are press reports available of many thousands of burglaries.
Try making a list of burglaries of residences or holiday residences, which involved a previously stolen key (doormat/bucketbydoor keys excluded), or a lost key, or a key misused by staff.
Before you start, stock up with lots of A4 pads and plenty of biros to record the hundreds of examples you will find ;)
Actually can anyone quote even a single case?

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:27:56 PM by John »

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?
« Reply #208 on: December 02, 2014, 11:20:10 PM »
"British detectives reckon the burglaries – believed to be carried out by a lone intruder between 2004 and 2010 – could be the key to finally solving what happened to her".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-quiz-british-4736648

Yes it is likely to be a lone burglar who opened the window.
Not some imaginary gang of 7.
Mrs F disturbed one lone burglar at her apartment, not a gang of 7
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:28:05 PM by John »