Some Basic Questions

[Samson]

LuminousWanderer, my interest is in many parallel commonwealth cases. Today I read in North and South magazine in New Zealand a letter stating only David Bain could ever know who killed his family. 5 bodies, a dichotomy, David Bain, age 23 like Jeremy front running the estate, or his father Robin.

All forensic evidence shows Robin killed the family then himself, and this is true with Sheila Caffel.
Sometimes we are better to let science control the rules of the game.

[Nicholas]

LuminousWanderer, my interest is in many parallel commonwealth cases. Today I read in North and South magazine in New Zealand a letter stating only David Bain could ever know who killed his family. 5 bodies, a dichotomy, David Bain, age 23 like Jeremy front running the estate, or his father Robin.

All forensic evidence shows Robin killed the family then himself, and this is true with Sheila Caffel.
Sometimes we are better to let science control the rules of the game.

In your opinion Samson! 

A basic question I've always had regarding Jeremy Bamber is why he's never ever been affected by the deaths of his victims and why he's never once showed an ounce of compassion for his innocent surviving relatives.

And those 2 little boys - words fail me

Did you read and absorb the contents of the letter he wrote to Colin Caffell?

Bambers behaviour has always been suspect and indeed self centred

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43044412

[Nicholas]

In your opinion Samson! 

A basic question I've always had regarding Jeremy Bamber is why he's never ever been affected by the deaths of his victims and why he's never once showed an ounce of compassion for his innocent surviving relatives.

And those 2 little boys - words fail me

Did you read and absorb the contents of the letter he wrote to Colin Caffell?

Bambers behaviour has always been suspect and indeed self centred

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43044412

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1045.0

"Letter written by Jeremy Bamber to Colin Caffell...this letter published in Colin's book, "In search of the rainbow's end".



Dear Colin
I read the articles in yesterdays independence with much sadness, the same sadness I always feel when I read about you and what you've been through in the last 3 years. Your letter today, Colin, was a touch premature,your writing to me, hoping, I guess, for the last few pieces of the jigsaw, so that you may hold the picture of what happened is not possible...if I could furnish you with what you wanted then I would gladly do so-whatever happened that fateful night will never be fully explained, in fact you could probably tell me more than I could you.


The paper did mention in the article yesterday that I was appealing, and no doubt you knew that anyway...how are you going to react when they quash my conviction Colin,because its very probable they will do so? you may believe me guilty, you may not, but I hope that if nothing else you will try and keep an open mind because at my appeal I will prove my innocence and by doing that the corner stone of the prosecution evidence was fabricated, by whom I cant prove yet and its not necessary to do so for my appeal, but eventually I'll find out because it can only be one of five people...it sounds like I'm talking riddles, and I'm sorry I can't explain in a letter to you. It seems so pointless me sending you this letter as it will only add to your confusion but for you to write to me must have taken a great deal, so my replying is the least I can do.

Jeremy continues in the same block capital style for another page or so and then closes wih these paragraphs.

In the same that you question what was written about Sheila in the newspapers so you should question what was said about me...I'm not gay or bisexual, I wasn't a cocaine smuggler, I didn't know half the people I had been associated with, I didn't break someone's arm at school, I didn't kite cheques and I didn't rape Julie.What other odious stuff they wrote I can't recall-even during my trial they couldn't get it right.


I won't go on, you know me and what I was like and I didn't write to you to convince you of my innocence even though I am, just well whatever.


 Love Jeremy
                                   
   P.S. I truly wish I could help you


There's more on Colin Caffell's thoughts here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6489.0

[Nicholas]

On page 29 of PH's book Deviant:

"My cynicism was aroused that Bamber was toying with me and trying to manipulate my research when he volunteered, without any provocation, that he felt it would be of no benefit in me viewing crime scene or post mortem images of the murdered children, since these images were as such irrelevant to my investigation and research.  This struck me as odd, I had never once mentioned images of any description, and since he knew I was an ex-police officer, and through my profession had seen and attended countless post-mortems and violent scenes of death, it felt as thought he was trying to manage and control what I saw.  The message he tried to portray was of someone showing consideration for my feelings, but why should he do that?  In reality it is in fact a trait among child killers that they don't like to discuss the brutality of their crimes on a defenceless child.  Bamber, from the outset, was setting his own parameters and letting me know he didn't want to discuss the murder of the children.  Child killers attempt to dissociate from any or all direct or visual evidence of their acts, they know it is difficult, if not impossible, to justify the consequences of their crimes against a child since such acts arouse public revulsion, and for someone like Bamber who seeks public support and sympathy, it puts him at a distinct disadvantage".

"Conversely his strategy permitted him to seemingly believe it acceptable for me to see the crime scene images of the other (adult) victims, and whilst these people may not be children they were his closest family.  This displays a total lack of sensitivity and personal empathy with the victims who he continues to use to his advantage even in death.  It was a devious act employed by the killer and provided an early insight into what I was dealing with" http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6489.0

[Nicholas]

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.

If what you say about helping Bamber is true; Why don't you contact him direct? You can do so by email nowadays at a small cost.

And can you explain how and why an Internet forum like this could possibly make any difference to Bambers "position."

I'm gathering the reason you've posted what you have, was in the hope of manipulating Holly.

Does the forum you refer to reflect the same bias you hope to achieve here by any chance?

[Nicholas]

I come here less frequently than I would like, Holly is doing "god"'s work.
I think it is vital to understand that in contentious cases it is an aborted mission to state only the accused knows if he (her) is guilty.
Jeremy Bamber is innocent because science has delivered a verdict.
Demeanour evidence, which is poorly understood, strongly favours the resolute proclaimer of innocence.

Damien Echolls watched many fellow inmates marched to the needle, and his book "Life after Death", states that not a single one proclaimed innocence. Indeed in modern times, it is possible only Cameron Todd Willingham has been executed, and is innocent. Richard Glossip came close but lives on. Please google those cases to understand this matter.

Here is a chaplain from San Quentin:

"Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax, studied at California Institute of Technology
Answered Dec 18 2014
I was a prison chaplain at San Quentin. None of the inmates I talked with ever protested full innocence. There were two cases where, had they been white, good chance they'd have been convicted of a lesser offense, or maybe even found innocent, but these were cases where they had actually killed someone, in self-defense, arguably, but ... there were other circumstances that made it murder, such as a police station being across the street! (I.e., there were options other than killing the attacker.)

I knew inmates whose parole had been violated, returning them to prison, who possibly had not done anything wrong. But none who ever denied the original crime. Now, that doesn't mean that there were none. In prison, I would guess it is not popular to protest innocence, because you will be in the minority and attempting to separate yourself from the rest. It might not be safe. I talked to a lot of inmates, walking the cell blocks, which is where I heard one of the "overcharged" stories (murder vs manslaughter). That kind of story is a little different, it would still convey a message of "don't mess with me."

My guess is that actually being innocent and being in prison with a conviction is a terrible position. A defacto requirement for parole may be a display of remorse. So what do you do?"

...

Please all be kind to Holly, I know you are. She is unassailably correct, and Jeremy Bamber may find his fortunes reside with people like Holly who have the brains and time to champion their cause.

    

I take it you aren't aware of how Jeremy Bamber treats those who champion his cause

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=785.msg24543#msg24543


"No matter what people" he's quite clearly referring to Julie Mugford

And

"There's not a chance anyone would hear news before me" even though he's in prison? Surely even you can see he's referring to his crimes.

Have a read of his letters to Mike http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=229.0

[Nicholas]

I come here less frequently than I would like, Holly is doing "god"'s work.
I think it is vital to understand that in contentious cases it is an aborted mission to state only the accused knows if he (her) is guilty.
Jeremy Bamber is innocent because science has delivered a verdict.
Demeanour evidence, which is poorly understood, strongly favours the resolute proclaimer of innocence.

Damien Echolls watched many fellow inmates marched to the needle, and his book "Life after Death", states that not a single one proclaimed innocence. Indeed in modern times, it is possible only Cameron Todd Willingham has been executed, and is innocent. Richard Glossip came close but lives on. Please google those cases to understand this matter.

Here is a chaplain from San Quentin:

"Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax, studied at California Institute of Technology
Answered Dec 18 2014
I was a prison chaplain at San Quentin. None of the inmates I talked with ever protested full innocence. There were two cases where, had they been white, good chance they'd have been convicted of a lesser offense, or maybe even found innocent, but these were cases where they had actually killed someone, in self-defense, arguably, but ... there were other circumstances that made it murder, such as a police station being across the street! (I.e., there were options other than killing the attacker.)

I knew inmates whose parole had been violated, returning them to prison, who possibly had not done anything wrong. But none who ever denied the original crime. Now, that doesn't mean that there were none. In prison, I would guess it is not popular to protest innocence, because you will be in the minority and attempting to separate yourself from the rest. It might not be safe. I talked to a lot of inmates, walking the cell blocks, which is where I heard one of the "overcharged" stories (murder vs manslaughter). That kind of story is a little different, it would still convey a message of "don't mess with me."

My guess is that actually being innocent and being in prison with a conviction is a terrible position. A defacto requirement for parole may be a display of remorse. So what do you do?"

...

Please all be kind to Holly, I know you are. She is unassailably correct, and Jeremy Bamber may find his fortunes reside with people like Holly who have the brains and time to champion their cause.

Define your perception of "demeanour evidence" and why you believe it's "poorly understood."

[Holly Goodhead]

Further to the following from yesterday it is disappointing to see one poster retrieving posts that have been dealt with  here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9293.msg453751#msg453751

Reposts have been removed. 

The link above also deals with off-topic posts.  Posts 114 - 118 inclusive are totally irrelevant to the thread/original post.  Please look up existing threads to add to or create new ones.  Final warning, any off-topic posts where not even a tenuous link exists will be edited or removed on sight.

[Nicholas]

MODERATORS - COULD YOU PLEASE STOP THIS IDIOT POSTING ON THIS FORUM??

Sorry, but the situation is a joke.  I've looked back at some of the threads, and this person has been a frequent troublemaker over a long period of time.  It's obvious that she needs to be dealt with.

Further to the following from yesterday it is disappointing to see one poster retrieving posts that have been dealt with  here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9293.msg453751#msg453751

Reposts have been removed. 

The link above also deals with off-topic posts.  Posts 114 - 118 inclusive are totally irrelevant to the thread/original post.  Please look up existing threads to add to or create new ones.  Final warning, any off-topic posts where not even a tenuous link exists will be edited or removed on sight.

The above post was not dealt with and may have been an oversight on your part Holly?

However I have now reported it and trust you will deal with it accordingly

[Holly Goodhead]

The above post was not dealt with and may have been an oversight on your part Holly?

However I have now reported it and trust you will deal with it accordingly

It was dealt with collectively here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9293.msg453751#msg453751

The offending posts haven't been edited or removed yet but will be in due course. Yours remain too.  As an example:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453455#msg453455

Stephanie a line needs to be drawn under this now.   

[Holly Goodhead]

On page 29 of PH's book Deviant:

"My cynicism was aroused that Bamber was toying with me and trying to manipulate my research when he volunteered, without any provocation, that he felt it would be of no benefit in me viewing crime scene or post mortem images of the murdered children, since these images were as such irrelevant to my investigation and research.  This struck me as odd, I had never once mentioned images of any description, and since he knew I was an ex-police officer, and through my profession had seen and attended countless post-mortems and violent scenes of death, it felt as thought he was trying to manage and control what I saw.  The message he tried to portray was of someone showing consideration for my feelings, but why should he do that?  In reality it is in fact a trait among child killers that they don't like to discuss the brutality of their crimes on a defenceless child.  Bamber, from the outset, was setting his own parameters and letting me know he didn't want to discuss the murder of the children.  Child killers attempt to dissociate from any or all direct or visual evidence of their acts, they know it is difficult, if not impossible, to justify the consequences of their crimes against a child since such acts arouse public revulsion, and for someone like Bamber who seeks public support and sympathy, it puts him at a distinct disadvantage".

"Conversely his strategy permitted him to seemingly believe it acceptable for me to see the crime scene images of the other (adult) victims, and whilst these people may not be children they were his closest family.  This displays a total lack of sensitivity and personal empathy with the victims who he continues to use to his advantage even in death.  It was a devious act employed by the killer and provided an early insight into what I was dealing with" http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6489.0

Stephanie threads exist for just about everything under the sun!  Here's the existing thread for 'Deviant' by PH:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6384.msg246801#msg246801

I don't want it to be said that I'm removing material anti-JB but I will do so in the future, whether it be anti or pro, if it's off-topic.  I will dig out existing threads for you on this occasion as a gesture of goodwill.  Going forward if you google the name of the forum along with key words of what it is you're looking for the search engine will hopefully turn it up.  Alternatively pm me as I can remember most and their location. 

[Holly Goodhead]

When Robin Bain shot himself blood ended in silencer. Touch your temple then your throat to feel the physical/scientific difference Adam. It is the difference between hitting a tennis ball against a brick wall and a hedge.

But did it?  I haven't seen any evidence for this? 

[Nicholas]

Stephanie threads exist for just about everything under the sun!  Here's the existing thread for 'Deviant' by PH:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6384.msg246801#msg246801

I don't want it to be said that I'm removing material anti-JB but I will do so in the future, whether it be anti or pro, if it's off-topic.  I will dig out existing threads for you on this occasion as a gesture of goodwill.  Going forward if you google the name of the forum along with key words of what it is you're looking for the search engine will hopefully turn it up.  Alternatively pm me as I can remember most and their location.

Yet you suggest Jeremy Bamber cannot? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454139#msg454139

[Nicholas]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1045.0

"Letter written by Jeremy Bamber to Colin Caffell...this letter published in Colin's book, "In search of the rainbow's end".



Dear Colin
I read the articles in yesterdays independence with much sadness, the same sadness I always feel when I read about you and what you've been through in the last 3 years. Your letter today, Colin, was a touch premature,your writing to me, hoping, I guess, for the last few pieces of the jigsaw, so that you may hold the picture of what happened is not possible...if I could furnish you with what you wanted then I would gladly do so-whatever happened that fateful night will never be fully explained, in fact you could probably tell me more than I could you.


The paper did mention in the article yesterday that I was appealing, and no doubt you knew that anyway...how are you going to react when they quash my conviction Colin,because its very probable they will do so? you may believe me guilty, you may not, but I hope that if nothing else you will try and keep an open mind because at my appeal I will prove my innocence and by doing that the corner stone of the prosecution evidence was fabricated, by whom I cant prove yet and its not necessary to do so for my appeal, but eventually I'll find out because it can only be one of five people...it sounds like I'm talking riddles, and I'm sorry I can't explain in a letter to you. It seems so pointless me sending you this letter as it will only add to your confusion but for you to write to me must have taken a great deal, so my replying is the least I can do.

Jeremy continues in the same block capital style for another page or so and then closes wih these paragraphs.

In the same that you question what was written about Sheila in the newspapers so you should question what was said about me...I'm not gay or bisexual, I wasn't a cocaine smuggler, I didn't know half the people I had been associated with, I didn't break someone's arm at school, I didn't kite cheques and I didn't rape Julie.What other odious stuff they wrote I can't recall-even during my trial they couldn't get it right.


I won't go on, you know me and what I was like and I didn't write to you to convince you of my innocence even though I am, just well whatever.


 Love Jeremy
                                   
   P.S. I truly wish I could help you


There's more on Colin Caffell's thoughts here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6489.0