UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Other High Profile Cases and Persons of Interest => Twenty years on, the mystery of who shot Jill Dando still prevails. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on May 03, 2019, 10:08:55 AM
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At BG's second trial his defence went through thousands of docs and found a letter from a Wayne Aird who claims to have been a member of the real IRA and part of a 4 man squad who assassinated Jill as a result of her work on Crimewatch:
There were also claims today that an IRA hit squad killed Jill, again amid fears that her Crimewatch show, watched by up to 10million each week, would expose its members.
Wayne Aird wrote a letter from prison, where he was serving life for killing a man months after the presenter's death, because he said he knew Barry George was not the killer.
He said the IRA shot Miss Dando on her doorstep, fleeing in a Land Rover to a London safe house, but claimed they were not prosecuted in order to protect the Northern Ireland peace process.
Aird said that he was told by a senior IRA boss in a target meeting that Miss Dando would be targeted.
He wrote: 'Being a member of the Real IRA the one thing I expect to gain from my confession is a bullet. Informers don't last very long. I'm prepared to go Queen's evidence on this statement.'
Leeds solicitor Stuart Page, who met and spoke to Aird, wrote at the time: 'It is quite possible the contents of his statement are pure make-believe. However, that is not a view that I formed during my short meeting with Mr Aird.'
It was reported that police knew about the letter but did not investigate further.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017544/How-police-failed-trace-100-suspects-Jill-Dando-murder-questioned-Cliff-Richard-Jeremy-Paxman-life.html
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At the time of Jill's murder the NI peace process and ceasefire (Provisional IRA) had been in place for around a couple of years but dissident groups eg the Real IRA continued to carry out violent acts eg Omagh in Aug 1998.
Is it really credible that the Real IRA would launch an audacious attack on a UK based tv presenter for presenting crimewatch?
I would have thought Garda, UK intelligence agencies, RUC and others such as FBI would have a very good idea if not detailed profiles about the main players in Real IRA and other splinter groups.
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The above article/Wayne Aird said the Real IRA murdered Jill to prevent her identifying them on Crimewatch and yet she was merely the presenter who would simply be replaced by a.n other who turned out to be Fiona Bruce.
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If the Real IRA wanted to make a political point then why not claim responsibility otherwise surely there's no political point to be made?
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At the time of Wayne Aird writing he was serving a life sentence at Wakefield for murdering Timothy Pincott on 23rd June 1999:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jan/18/geoffreygibbs
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Jill was murdered on 26th April which coincides with the anniversary period of the 1916 Easter Rising. Was this a coincidence or part of an audacious plan?
On 24th April 1996 the Provisional IRA planted 2 bombs underneath Hammersmith Bridge this also coincided with the anniversary period of the 1916 Easter Rising.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Hammersmith_Bridge_bombing
The distance between Gowan Avenue and Hammersmith Bridge is 1.7 miles.
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You sound like mike Tesco
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IRA modus operandi on the mainland has in recent years centered around bombs with coded telephone warnings or claims of responsibility afterwards.
If the IRA murdered Jill this would be a change in modus operandi. Why the change if the IRA was responsible?
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You sound like mike Tesco
A lot of what Mike Tesco claims is not even remotely possible let alone plausible. What is not possible or plausible about the IRA murdering Jill?
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A lot of what Mike Tesco claims is not even remotely possible let alone plausible. What is not possible or plausible about the IRA murdering Jill?
Neither are yours!
You’ll need to figure that out for yourself, though I won’t hold my breath as it seems like Holly’s way or the highway.
You don’t appear remotely interested in reason, logic or facts.
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Neither are yours!
You’ll need to figure that out for yourself, though I won’t hold my breath as it seems like Holly’s way or the highway.
You don’t appear remotely interested in reason, logic or facts.
What is not possible or plausible about the IRA murdering Jill?
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Reasons supporting IRA murdering Jill:
- In the eyes of an extreme Irish republican Jill would be considered part of the British Establishment working for the BBC, supporting and working alongside British police officers on Crimewatch everything extreme republicans despise.
- Would have the covert surveillance capability which it appears Jill must have been under given she no longer lived at Gowan Avenue
- Would have the ballistics capability in terms of procuring firearms and ammo along with the capability to modify cartridges.
- Would have the knowledge about firearm discharge sounds and backspatter and how to minimise ie reduce propellant from cartridge
- Would have the organisational capability in terms of getaway driver, lookouts with distraction techniques if anyone entered zone when Jill arrived and perp carried out murder.
- Confession of sorts from Wayne Aird whose solicitor said:
Leeds solicitor Stuart Page, who met and spoke to Aird, wrote at the time: 'It is quite possible the contents of his statement are pure make-believe. However, that is not a view that I formed during my short meeting with Mr Aird.'
Reasons why not IRA:
- Did not claim responsibility so no political point to be made
- Change in MO
- Murdering Jill would not prevent Crimewatch continuing or change the format in any shape or form
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ETA above
- This might explain why intelligence was non-existent. A Real IRA cell would be self-sufficient from beginning to end.
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Wayne Aird who made the revelations was at the time serving a life sentence for murdering a man called Timothy Pincott on 23rd June 1999 which was less than 2 months after Jill was murdered.
Apparently the pair shared a flat together and were Big Issue sellers. It was claimed at trial that Timothy Pincott had acquired substantial savings through selling the Big Issue and this was Aird's motive for killing him. However a spokesperson for the Big Issue said:
A spokeswoman for the Big Issue Cymru has revealed how Mr Pincott managed to save a small fortune by selling the magazine.
Director Sue West said he did not drink or smoke and lived on a diet of free soup.
"Tim would be out selling from 8am to 8pm every day and would buy 100 copies at a time to sell," said Mrs West.
She said she was "amazed" by the amount the murder victim had saved in two years but said it was quite possible.
"If anybody was making money like that we would take their vendor badge because there are more worthy people who needed it," Mrs West added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/607212.stm
Hmmm a Big Issue seller who acquired substantial savings through dint of hard work. Possible but does not seem entirely plausible imo.
Another article states Timothy Pincott did not drink or smoke and yet he was murdered by Aird when the pair were drinking on the beach according to the following article. I guess it must have been non-alcoholic. Anything is possible I guess maybe they took a flask of herbal tea.
The court heard that on the night of June 23 last year the two men went for a drink on a beach at Rhoose, near Cardiff, where Aird battered Mr Pincott over the head with a rock before dragging his body into nearby salt marshes.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jan/18/geoffreygibbs
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Something about the murder of Timothy Pincott does not seem right imo.
There's nothing about Aird belonging to any terrorist organisation or any previous convictions.
Did the substantial savings come from selling the Big Issue?
Did Aird receive some financial compensation for any part he may have had in Jill's murder and this was deposited in Timothy Pincott's name to circumvent a paper trail?
If Aird had some involvement did he fess up to Timothy Pincott, under the influence of whatever they were drinking on the beach, who threatened to blow the whistle?
The whole thing does not add up imo.
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According to Big Issue in one year 1500 sellers earned a total of 5.5 million. That's on average approx 3.6k per seller. So how was it Timothy Pincott managed to amass such substantial savings supposedly through selling the Big Issue?
https://www.bigissue.com/about/
Also TP had a degree in applied biology from Cardiff uni which I don't believe is the usual sort of background of a Big Issue seller.
At Aird's trial was the court aware of his claims of being a member of a terrorist organisation namely the IRA?
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According to Big Issue in one year 1500 sellers earned a total of 5.5 million. That's on average approx 3.6k per seller. So how was it Timothy Pincott managed to amass such substantial savings supposedly through selling the Big Issue?
https://www.bigissue.com/about/
Also TP had a degree in applied biology from Cardiff uni which I don't believe is the usual sort of background of a Big Issue seller.
At Aird's trial was the court aware of his claims of being a member of a terrorist organisation namely the IRA?
Your unjust and prejudicial treatment of different categories of people precedes you Holly *&^^&
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It appears that Timothy Pincott has a brother by the name of Gary Pincott who was also involved in an incident involving attempted murder by drowning during 2014 but Gary was the perp unlike Timothy being the victim.
Gary Pincott seemed to have a lifestyle similar to his deceased brother's in that he slept rough but unlike what we're told about Timothy, Gary liked to drink.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2685797/Soldier-tells-court-pulled-unconscious-woman-freezing-river-seeing-lover-beat-roll-water-like-log-drown-her.html
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It appears that Timothy Pincott has a brother by the name of Gary Pincott who was also involved in an incident involving attempted murder by drowning during 2014 but Gary was the perp unlike Timothy being the victim.
Gary Pincott seemed to have a lifestyle similar to his deceased brother's in that he slept rough but unlike what we're told about Timothy, Gary liked to drink.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2685797/Soldier-tells-court-pulled-unconscious-woman-freezing-river-seeing-lover-beat-roll-water-like-log-drown-her.html
And this is relevant to the Barry George case how?
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It's possible Big Issue vendors could be using it as a front for money laundering.
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And this is relevant to the Barry George case how?
Read the thread and follow the trail.
Complex crimes are often not solved by what is immediately available but looking underneath, above and sideways.
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It's possible Big Issue vendors could be using it as a front for money laundering.
@)(++(*
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Read the thread and follow the trail.
Complex crimes are often not solved by what is immediately available but looking underneath, above and sideways.
You’re on your own
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1cwCIkKFFR4
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@)(++(*
Proceeds of crime are often laundered through cash intensive businesses are they not? Eg taxi firms, restaurants, newsagents, nail bars and such like.
The Big Issue is a cash intensive business is it not? Vendors buy the mag at 1.25 a pop and sell it for 2.50 min but there will be many who will pass over notes telling the vendor to keep the change. What paper trails are kept other than copies sold and bought between Big Issue and vendor? If a vendor purchases 100 copies x 1.25 to sell for 2.50 per copy but ends up with 2.5k who would be any the wiser where the 2,250 came from? It could be public generosity or ill gotten gains being laundered.
If Wayne Aird's claims about being involved in Jill's murder are true and for some reason he was paid for his part do you think it would be a good idea if he simply took the money from the payer and paid it into his own bank account?
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Proceeds of crime are often laundered through cash intensive businesses are they not? Eg taxi firms, restaurants, newsagents, nail bars and such like.
The Big Issue is a cash intensive business is it not? Vendors buy the mag at 1.25 a pop and sell it for 2.50 min but there will be many who will pass over notes telling the vendor to keep the change. What paper trails are kept other than copies sold and bought between Big Issue and vendor? If a vendor purchases 100 copies x 1.25 to sell for 2.50 per copy but ends up with 2.5k who would be any the wiser where the 2,250 came from? It could be public generosity or ill gotten gains being laundered.
If Wayne Aird's claims about being involved in Jill's murder are true and for some reason he was paid for his part do you think it would be a good idea if he simply took the money from the payer and paid it into his own bank account?
A spokesperson for the Big Issue even stated
She said she was "amazed" by the amount the murder victim had saved in two years but said it was quite possible.
"If anybody was making money like that we would take their vendor badge because there are more worthy people who needed it," Mrs West added.
Clearly Big Issue had no idea about TP's profits supposedly from selling Big Issue otherwise they would have taken his vendor badge.
For all anyone knows a Big Issue vendor could halfheartedly sell a few mags having spent a few hours on his/her pitch and in reality be nothing more than a front for criminals and terrorists to launder ill gotten gains through.
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It's certainly highly suspicious imo.
Timothy Pincott, with a degree in Applied Biology from Cardiff uni and a Big Issue vendor amasses some 57k through apparently selling the Big Issue by working long hours and living frugally. He shares a flat with another Big Issue vendor, Wayne Aird, who claims to be a member of the Real IRA and took part in the murder of Jill Dando. Two months after Jill Dando's murder Wayne Aird murdered Timothy Pincott. The prosecution at trial told the court the motive was access to the 57k.
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If the IRA (Real?) was involved in the murder was the motive the 'cause' ie a united Ireland free from any British involvement with Jill representing in its eyes the British establishment: BBC employee along with supporting British police officers through her role on Crimewatch?
Or, if the IRA (Real?) was involved, was the motive money for carrying out a paid hit? And if the motive was money was it for personal gain or funding its terrorist activities or both?
As mentioned up thread a Wayne Aird confessed to being a member of the IRA (Real?) and part of a four man squad who assassinated Jill. Aird's solicitor said:
Leeds based solicitor said of Aird's confession:
Leeds solicitor Stuart Page, who met and spoke to Aird, wrote at the time:'It is quite possible the contents of his statement are pure make-believe. However, that is not a view that I formed during my short meeting with Mr Aird.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3017544/How-police-failed-trace-100-suspects-Jill-Dando-murder-questioned-Cliff-Richard-Jeremy-Paxman-life.html
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If the motive was the IRA's 'cause' then why not claim responsibility with the usual aim of inflicting terror believing it will cause Britain to pull out of NI?
Would such a 'hit' be damaging for the organisation? Would more moderate republicans support a 4 man squad carrying out an assassination on an unsuspecting female broadcaster whose greatest crime in its eyes would be working for the BBC and broadcasting Crimewatch alongside British police officers?
If the IRA was responsible then it seems to me it was a paid hit and had nothing to do with the 'cause'. Which begs the question who paid and why?
Did anyone exist in Alan Farthing's background who wanted to either hurt Alan or Jill, physically or mentally, and/or curtail the forthcoming marriage? Did any such person(s) have connections directly or indirectly with Irish republicans/IRA/paramilitary groups?
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FACTS Holly! NOT conspiracy theories or CLAIMS made by ITV!
“Chief inspector Campbell added: 'The Dando investigation is clear on what evidence it has at a forensic level, and what the witnesses said they saw or heard or knew in 1999. They remain unchanged.'
TV investigator Mark Williams-Thomas last year claimed he had been given the name of the killer.
But Mr Campbell said all 'new leads' that crop up as years go by should be questioned.
'Especially when persons state the theories through the media or TV, and not the police,' he said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6948879/Jill-Dandos-death-unexplained-unless-gun-used-kill-found.html
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Following the Omagh bombing on 15th Aug '98 and the international condemnation thereafter RIRA called a ceasefire on 8th Sept.
In 1999 RIRA began preparations for a new campaign and in May 3 RIRA members travelled to Split in Croatia to purchase weapons.
Was RIRA paid to assassinate Jill? Did the proceeds of crime then fund the purchase of weapons?
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The Crimewatch reconstruction refers to:
- Witnesses describing men which vary and locate them near Jill's house and at either end of Gowan Ave: dark haired man wearing a suit; fair haired man wearing a suit; dark haired man wearing a suit and an ill-fitting pair of glasses. Many of the witnesses assume the men are estate agents.
- The perp seen leaving Jill's property was dark haired but was wearing a thigh length waxed jacket.
- Other witnesses describe seeing a man in a suit, at times talking into what they assume was a mobile, running along Fulham Park Road shortly after Jill was murdered. These witnesses were in the main driving so could not possibly know whether the handheld device was in fact a mobile or a walkie talkie or some other device.
- A witness at a nearby bus stop describes a dark haired man in a suit turning up sweaty.
IMO the above aligns with the letter from convicted murderer, Wayne Aird, who claims to have been a member of the RIRA and part of a 4 man squad who assassinated Jill.
The various discrepancies of males hanging around Gowan Ave shortly before Jill was murdered may well have been a lookout either end of Gowan Ave, with the perp in the waxy jacket and a getaway driver some distance away waiting to take the 4 to a safe house: perp, 2 x lookouts and a driver.
It's widely accepted RIRA were responsible for Omagh bomb Aug '98 and although insufficient evidence to convict, mobile phone call data strongly implicated 4:
Michael McKevitt - Husband to Bernadette Sands-McKevitt sister to the late hunger striker Bobby Sands.
Liam Campbell
Colm Murphy
Seamus Daly
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The Crimewatch reconstruction refers to:
- Witnesses describing men which vary and locate them near Jill's house and at either end of Gowan Ave: dark haired man wearing a suit; fair haired man wearing a suit; dark haired man wearing a suit and an ill-fitting pair of glasses. Many of the witnesses assume the men are estate agents.
- The perp seen leaving Jill's property was dark haired but was wearing a thigh length waxed jacket.
- Other witnesses describe seeing a man in a suit, at times talking into what they assume was a mobile, running along Fulham Park Road shortly after Jill was murdered. These witnesses were in the main driving so could not possibly know whether the handheld device was in fact a mobile or a walkie talkie or some other device.
- A witness at a nearby bus stop describes a dark haired man in a suit turning up sweaty.
IMO the above aligns with the letter from convicted murderer, Wayne Aird, who claims to have been a member of the RIRA and part of a 4 man squad who assassinated Jill.
The various discrepancies of males hanging around Gowan Ave shortly before Jill was murdered may well have been a lookout either end of Gowan Ave, with the perp in the waxy jacket and a getaway driver some distance away waiting to take the 4 to a safe house: perp, 2 x lookouts and a driver.
It's widely accepted RIRA were responsible for Omagh bomb Aug '98 and although insufficient evidence to convict, mobile phone call data strongly implicated 4:
Michael McKevitt - Husband to Bernadette Sands-McKevitt sister to the late hunger striker Bobby Sands.
Liam Campbell
Colm Murphy
Seamus Daly
Although I believe RIRA were responsible for Jill's murder I'm not necessarily suggesting the above 4 were involved. But what it does potentially show is an awareness of how mobile phone data can be used to track the location of mobile phones which might be a reason police were unable to find any relevant data if RIRA reverted to walkie talkies.
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Michael McKevitt was former Quartermaster General in the PIRA responsible for arms caches so would be ideally placed to procure the firearm and tailor adjust the cartridge for a quiet assassination.
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I believe RIRA was paid to assassinate Jill. This money was then at least in part used to fund the purchase of weapons in May '99:
In 1999 the RIRA began preparations for a renewed campaign, and in May three members travelled to Split in Croatia to purchase arms, which were smuggled back to Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army
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I believe RIRA was paid to assassinate Jill. This money was then at least in part used to fund the purchase of weapons in May '99:
In 1999 the RIRA began preparations for a renewed campaign, and in May three members travelled to Split in Croatia to purchase arms, which were smuggled back to Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army
The above also shows RIRA were working with East Europeans from the former Yugoslavia which might account for the calls to BBC from a man said to have an East European accent.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jill-dando-murder-serbian-mafia-5425551
The files also reveal a convicted killer penned a letter from prison claiming he was part of a four-man IRA hit squad that murdered Jill.
Wayne Aird claimed senior paramilitaries chose her as a target because of her links to police through her work presenting Crimewatch.
The claims can be revealed – almost 15 years after he wrote the letter from his cell at Wakefield prison where he was serving life for killing a man two months after Jill’s death.
Aird said a member of the gang shot her with a 9mm bullet before they escaped in Land Rovers to a safe house in the capital.
He said he was confessing because he did not want George to be part of an Establishment cover-up.
Aird claimed that the IRA was being allowed to get away with Jill’s killing to avoid harming the Northern Ireland peace process.
Aird, originally of Prudhoe, Northumberland, wrote that three months before Jill’s death a senior IRA figure told him of a plan to kill a big TV star.
He said he was flown to Dublin then summoned to Dundalk where Jill was named as the target.
Aird wrote: “Being a member of the Real IRA the one thing I expect to gain from my confession is a bullet. Informers don’t last very long.”
He vowed to repeat his astonishing claims to bring about convictions, saying: “I’m prepared to go Queen’s evidence on this statement.”
His apparent confession was made to Leeds-based solicitor Stuart Page who later wrote: “It is quite possible the contents of his statement are pure make-believe.
"However, that is not a view that I formed during my short meeting with Mr Aird.”
It is understood that police were made aware of Aird’s letter but did not investigate further.
Aird, now 45, is thought to still be behind bars.
He was jailed in 2000 for murdering flatmate Timothy Pincott, 37, near their Cardiff home.
Aird claims he was flown to Dublin and then summoned to Dundalk for a meeting to discuss the assassination of Jill Dando.
Dundalk is home to RIRA's then leader Michael McKevitt brother-in-law to the late hunger striker Bobby Sands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKevitt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jill-dando-murder-serbian-mafia-5425551
The files also reveal a convicted killer penned a letter from prison claiming he was part of a four-man IRA hit squad that murdered Jill.
Wayne Aird claimed senior paramilitaries chose her as a target because of her links to police through her work presenting Crimewatch.
The claims can be revealed – almost 15 years after he wrote the letter from his cell at Wakefield prison where he was serving life for killing a man two months after Jill’s death.
Aird said a member of the gang shot her with a 9mm bullet before they escaped in Land Rovers to a safe house in the capital.
He said he was confessing because he did not want George to be part of an Establishment cover-up.
Aird claimed that the IRA was being allowed to get away with Jill’s killing to avoid harming the Northern Ireland peace process.
Aird, originally of Prudhoe, Northumberland, wrote that three months before Jill’s death a senior IRA figure told him of a plan to kill a big TV star.
He said he was flown to Dublin then summoned to Dundalk where Jill was named as the target.
Aird wrote: “Being a member of the Real IRA the one thing I expect to gain from my confession is a bullet. Informers don’t last very long.”
He vowed to repeat his astonishing claims to bring about convictions, saying: “I’m prepared to go Queen’s evidence on this statement.”
His apparent confession was made to Leeds-based solicitor Stuart Page who later wrote: “It is quite possible the contents of his statement are pure make-believe.
"However, that is not a view that I formed during my short meeting with Mr Aird.”
It is understood that police were made aware of Aird’s letter but did not investigate further.
Aird, now 45, is thought to still be behind bars.
He was jailed in 2000 for murdering flatmate Timothy Pincott, 37, near their Cardiff home.
Aird claims he was flown to Dublin and then summoned to Dundalk for a meeting to discuss the assassination of Jill Dando.
Dundalk is home to RIRA's then leader Michael McKevitt brother-in-law to the late hunger striker Bobby Sands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKevitt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands
This 'turning a blind eye' to IRA activities has been going on since Thatcher. With Blair and his motley crew the excuse was so as not to undermine the peace process in NI. I know of one very prominent IRA thug who literally got away with his terrorist activities and all in the name of peace. So ironic!
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This 'turning a blind eye' to IRA activities has been going on since Thatcher. With Blair and his motley crew the excuse was so as not to undermine the peace process in NI. I know of one very prominent IRA thug who literally got away with his terrorist activities and all in the name of peace. So ironic!
The letter from Aird was apparently found by BG's second defence team and no evidence police investigated and/or passed to counter-terrorism/MI5 which does make you wonder why not?!
Was this down to police believing they had their man in Barry George or something more sinister?
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This 'turning a blind eye' to IRA activities has been going on since Thatcher. With Blair and his motley crew the excuse was so as not to undermine the peace process in NI. I know of one very prominent IRA thug who literally got away with his terrorist activities and all in the name of peace. So ironic!
The letter from Aird was apparently found by BG's second defence team and no evidence police investigated and/or passed to counter-terrorism/MI5 which does make you wonder why not?!
Was this down to police believing they had their man in Barry George or something more sinister?
Now the pair of you are at it *&^^&
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Now the pair of you are at it *&^^&
Why do yo believe the theory re the IRA is not plausible and/or possible?
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The letter from Aird was apparently found by BG's second defence team and no evidence police investigated and/or passed to counter-terrorism/MI5 which does make you wonder why not?!
Was this down to police believing they had their man in Barry George or something more sinister?
You have no idea what the police did or didn’t investigate after the trial!
They were no longer required to disclose evidential material to the defence.
As per usual you are clutching at straws.
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Why do yo believe the theory re the IRA is not plausible and/or possible?
IMO Barry George murdered Jill Dando. His conviction was overturned on a technicality.
I notice the fact he’s still being monitored by MAPPA has been ignored or swept under the carpet.
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IMO Barry George murdered Jill Dando. His conviction was overturned on a technicality.
I notice the fact he’s still being monitored by MAPPA has been ignored or swept under the carpet.
How can BG be monitored by UK organisation MAPPA when he lives in Eire?
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How can BG be monitored by UK organisation MAPPA when he lives in Eire?
I’ve already covered this on the main thread.
However don’t shoot the messenger! You’d think his sister would get this one vital piece of information correct after all this time - again I find this telling
Now that Barry George’s sister has published the fact her brother is still being monitored, maybe she’ll tell us why?
The Met Police and other agencies involved don’t appear to have made a public comment on this for over a decade?
PPANI Is what MAPPA is known as in Northern Ireland.
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I’ve already covered this on the main thread.
However don’t shoot the messenger! You’d think his sister would get this one vital piece of information correct after all this time - again I find this telling
But BG lives in Eire. Eire is no more part of UK than China is or any other sovereign state.
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The letter from Aird was apparently found by BG's second defence team and no evidence police investigated and/or passed to counter-terrorism/MI5 which does make you wonder why not?!
Was this down to police believing they had their man in Barry George or something more sinister?
The police don't like having to admit they messed up so we're quite happy to let George rot in jail.
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You have no idea what the police did or didn’t investigate after the trial!
They were no longer required to disclose evidential material to the defence.
As per usual you are clutching at straws.
Apologies for pointing this out but it was the police who were clutching at straws.
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IMO Barry George murdered Jill Dando. His conviction was overturned on a technicality.
I notice the fact he’s still being monitored by MAPPA has been ignored or swept under the carpet.
You are entitled to your opinion but after two trials, two appeals and eight years in jail, Barry George was cleared of the murder of the BBC television presenter Jill Dando so please don't make accusations without evidence to back them up.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/01/jilldando.ukcrime1
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after two trials, two appeals and eight years in jail, Barry George was cleared of the murder of the BBC television presenter Jill Dando
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/01/jilldando.ukcrime1
Yes amazing isn’t it. If he were tried today I don’t believe he’d get away with it.
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Yes amazing isn’t it. If he were tried today I don’t believe he’d get away with it.
What new evidence has surfaced since his 2008 trial where the verdict was a unanimous 'Not Guilty'?
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What new evidence has surfaced since his 2008 trial where the verdict was a unanimous 'Not Guilty'?
For starters
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9318.msg491990#msg491990
"Justice is best served when the evidence and hypotheses under consideration are accessible and clear to all parties and are unambiguously defined. In particular, this is the only way to assign correct meanings to the likelihoods provided by expert witnesses. Furthermore, because the probative value of a piece of evidence on source-level hypotheses may be very different from its probative value on offence-level hypotheses, the relationships between source-level and offence-level hypotheses must be made clear. We have demonstrated that an efficient way to achieve such clarity will require the construction of causal models through the aid of tools such as Bayesian networks. This approach helps to improve legal reasoning and by doing so demonstrates how hypotheses can be clarified, related and made precise enough for reliable quantification. Central to this approach is the distinction between hypotheses that are mutually exclusive and exhaustive and those that are not.
We contend that, in order to determine whether evidence has probative value – and therefore whether it should be excluded from proceedings or not – it should be evaluated against offence-level hypotheses. Any diversion from this key principle will carry the risk that evidence might be presented to the jury merely as a diversionary tactic, and persuade it to make decisions based on superfluous source- level hypotheses.
We have demonstrated serious concerns about the Barry George Appeal Court judgement. The case document suffered from oversimpli- fication: what appeared as a superficially simple set of hypotheses were actually a set of ill-defined, but related, assumptions and vaguely defined hypotheses
Under these circumstances the ‘simple LR rule’ inadequately captured the probative value of the evidence. We have shown that evidence with a LR equal to the one in this case was not necessarily ‘neutral’.
The errors we highlight are taken from a judgement document, and although this may not always have accurately recorded what was said in court, the fact that it contains so much erroneous reasoning is cause for concern. Clearly, if a case judgement can be wrought with so many failings, similar problems are likely to occur in courtroom judgments too. Additionally, it is a concern that the careful and rigorous presentations of statistical evidence made by conscientious expert witnesses can become distorted in a case judgement.
https://www.scienceandjusticejournal.com/article/S1355-0306(13)00059-2/fulltext?code=scijus-site
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As far as I'm concerned the theory involving the so-called Real IRA (RIRA) is most compelling:
- I believe RIRA were paid to murder Jill over her relationship/engagement/forthcoming marriage/plans to start a family with Alan Farthing ie a jealous ex of AF's who had available funds and contacts with Irish republicans at the extreme end.
- RIRA are thought responsible for Omagh bomb, Aug '98, based on cell phone analysis. Police were unable to pick up any mobile tel communication around the time Jill was murdered as by this time RIRA had the forensic awareness and switched to pagers or walkie talkies.
- RIRA would have the ballistics capability to procure firearm/ammo and modify ammo to reduce velocity which in turn would reduce sound of firearm discharge and back spatter.
- As Jill was no longer living at Gowan Ave, visitng infrequently on random days/times in the main to pick up items stored there, this suggests the perps had Jill under covert electronic surveillance by way of car tracking and/or bugs installed at AF's home and/or mobiles all of which would be routine to RIRA.
- Witness descriptions of perp vary but all describe a well dressed man who many assume to be an estate agent. A perfect rue imo where 2 look outs were deployed either end of Gowan Ave whilst the assassin murdered Jill. This accounts for the difference descriptions.
- The e-fit did not produce any tangible results. Recognition of RIRA members on mainland would be minimal.
- Police intelligence was non-existent which can be explained by RIRA being responsible.
- A Wayne Aird confessed to being a member of the IRA and part of a 4 man squad who murdered Jill. His solicitor said in his opinion Aird's confession was credible.
- At the time of Aird's confession he was serving a life sentence for murdering Timothy Pincott a Big Issue seller who had amassed some 50k in savings from supposedly selling the Big Issue. A spokesperson for BI thought it extraordinary. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is! Were the pair involved in laundering money from the proceeds of crime and/or aiding terrorists?
- Shortly after Jill was murdered a man with what appears to have been an east European accent phoned BBC offices in London and Belfast claiming responsibility. Was this someone from the Balkans who was working with RIRA making hoax calls to deflect blame?
- The month after Jill was murdered RIRA successfully smuggled a catchment of weapons from Croatia:
In 1999 the RIRA began preparations for a renewed campaign, and in May three members travelled to Split in Croatia to purchase arms, which were smuggled back to Ireland.
Where did the funds come from? Murder money?
- Afaik all Irish paramilitiary groups have publicly stated violence will only be used against what it considers legitimate targets: army personnel, police officers, politicians etc. On this basis it is hard to see how Jill could be considered a legitimate target other than she was the face of the BBC and supported police officers on Crimewatch. If the murder was a paid 'hit' RIRA no doubt justified the tenuous link to BBC and police by funds generated to purchase arms for the 'cause'.
- The date of Jill's murder coincides with a significant date in the Irish paramilitary calendar: the 1916 Easter Rising. Symbolic attacks are often carried out during the anniversary period eg bombing of Hammersmith bridge in 1996.
It also occurred on the anniversary of the 1916 Easter Rising.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Hammersmith_Bridge_bombing
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For starters
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9318.msg491990#msg491990
"Justice is best served when the evidence and hypotheses under consideration are accessible and clear to all parties and are unambiguously defined. In particular, this is the only way to assign correct meanings to the likelihoods provided by expert witnesses. Furthermore, because the probative value of a piece of evidence on source-level hypotheses may be very different from its probative value on offence-level hypotheses, the relationships between source-level and offence-level hypotheses must be made clear. We have demonstrated that an efficient way to achieve such clarity will require the construction of causal models through the aid of tools such as Bayesian networks. This approach helps to improve legal reasoning and by doing so demonstrates how hypotheses can be clarified, related and made precise enough for reliable quantification. Central to this approach is the distinction between hypotheses that are mutually exclusive and exhaustive and those that are not.
We contend that, in order to determine whether evidence has probative value – and therefore whether it should be excluded from proceedings or not – it should be evaluated against offence-level hypotheses. Any diversion from this key principle will carry the risk that evidence might be presented to the jury merely as a diversionary tactic, and persuade it to make decisions based on superfluous source- level hypotheses.
We have demonstrated serious concerns about the Barry George Appeal Court judgement. The case document suffered from oversimpli- fication: what appeared as a superficially simple set of hypotheses were actually a set of ill-defined, but related, assumptions and vaguely defined hypotheses
Under these circumstances the ‘simple LR rule’ inadequately captured the probative value of the evidence. We have shown that evidence with a LR equal to the one in this case was not necessarily ‘neutral’.
The errors we highlight are taken from a judgement document, and although this may not always have accurately recorded what was said in court, the fact that it contains so much erroneous reasoning is cause for concern. Clearly, if a case judgement can be wrought with so many failings, similar problems are likely to occur in courtroom judgments too. Additionally, it is a concern that the careful and rigorous presentations of statistical evidence made by conscientious expert witnesses can become distorted in a case judgement.
https://www.scienceandjusticejournal.com/article/S1355-0306(13)00059-2/fulltext?code=scijus-site
How does the above support your belief BG is responsible?
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- The e-fit did not produce any tangible results.
As per usual Holly you are attempting to rewrite history.
Only you know why you are choosing to ignore the factual evidence in this case.
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Have already pointed this out:
Barry George made it known he was afraid he would be recognised in an e-fit as Ms Dando’s killer before police had even released the e-fit
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this suggests the perps had Jill under covert electronic surveillance by way of car tracking and/or bugs installed at AF's home and/or mobiles
@)(++(*
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As per usual Holly you are attempting to rewrite history.
Only you know why you are choosing to ignore the factual evidence in this case.
Where's the evidence anyone ever put forward anyone resembling the e-fit?
BG was well know in the locality. If locals thought he resembled the e-fit then surely the police would be swamped with calls?
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Have already pointed this out:
Barry George made it known he was afraid he would be recognised in an e-fit as Ms Dando’s killer before police had even released the e-fit
What evidence do you have for the above?
Barry George does appear to have been somewhat paranoid and this can possibly be explained by the fact he was often identified by police as a potential suspect and questioned eg the murder of Rachel Nickell.
The likes of BG with his mental and physical disabilities and somewhat chaotic lifestyle would be a sitting duck for frustrated police officers ie frustrated in the sense of struggling to resolve cases.
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@)(++(*
What explanation do you have for the fact Jill was shot on her doorstep having just arrived at a property she owned but no longer lived at and visited very infrequently? How would anyone not acquainted with her know she was going to turn up when she did?
Others murdered at home addresses eg John Lennon were actually living there at the time.
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Barry George does appear to have been somewhat paranoid and this can possibly be explained by the fact he was often identified by police as a potential suspect and questioned eg the murder of Rachel Nickell.
It isn’t a fact he was often questioned by police - your beliefs are born out of fiction peddled by others.
You have given one example. Why?
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More importantly WHY would the police be interested in Barry George following the Rachel Nickell murder?
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“Panorama finds out that the jury members were never given information explaining why Barry George was desperate to establish an alibi for the time Jill Dando was shot dead in the head on the doorstep of her home in London in 1999.
George had been questioned about the Rachel Nickell murder on Wimbledon Common in 1992.
He had nothing to do with that murder but he was afraid that he would be questioned again. Trying to establish the alibi made him look highly suspicious. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5314996.stm
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More importantly WHY would the police be interested in Barry George following the Rachael Nickell murder?
For the same reason they were interested in Colin Stagg I assume.