Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[stephen25000]

Exactly Stephen, and that is the whole point of my previous post.   If the McCanns did open the window/shutters as part of a plan to convince the police that intruders had broken in - then common sense alone dictates that they would have 'created' some evidence of that themselves.     They would both have to be as thick as two planks not to realise how important that was.  For instance - it wouldn't be difficult for them to put a few marks on the outside window cill or even the wall beneath it from inside the bedroom if necessary.     Also the one thing they would not do is leave any of their own fingerprints on the window.

But we are being asked to believe that they did nothing - and simply decided to open the window/shutters themselves and then claim they  had been forced open from the outside -  knowing full well that no evidence whatsoever of their claim would be found on inspection by the police.    Duh?

Why even bother with such a 'doomed' scheme involving the window/shutters at all - when all they had to do was claim that an intruder must have entered through the patio doors -  which would also strengthen their claim that they had been targetted and watched for several days beforehand and so the perpetrator would know they were leaving the patio doors unlocked.    Simples.   

IMO  Kate found the window/shutters open when she returned but it simply did not occur to her that they had been opened from the inside by the intruder(s).   And there is no credible reason why she should have thought any differently in those first moments after finding Madeleine gone.    Anyone would think the same.

The trouble is with that, is that there is no proof the windows or shutters were open.

We only have her word for that.

Which of course has to be tested in court to establish the truth.

The jemmying claim comes from the family, as I have posted before.

[Brietta]

Same evidence as at 5G upstairs (window open, no forced entry) therefore same method.

I agree that the similarities in both cases suggest the same modus operandi.

In the case of the home invasion at Mrs Fenn's residence the fact that the intruder was in the act of exiting via the window illustrates that it was being used as an 'emergency' exit rather than an entry point.

It was thought he had a key to the apartment.  Recent revelations at the start of the new investigation regarding irregularities with the keys for the apartments, suggest that a key could have been used.to enter both 5G and 5A.

Similarly it would appear that as in the case of 5G - the window was opened to be used as an emergency exit should the intruder be disturbed.


- SNIP - Mrs Fenn has told police how she scared off an intruder she found in her apartment in the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz in the weeks leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.

There was no sign of a break-in and police believe he may have used a key to get in through the front door.

The terrified mother was watching TV in the evening and went to investigate a noise coming from her bedroom.

Mrs Fenn, who has lived in Praia da Luz for a number of years, discovered a man scrambling out of the window.

She tried to grab his ankle but he escaped. She reported the incident to police but did not believe anything was taken.

 - SNIP - "She was shaking with fear and called the police.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

 

[pegasus]

I agree that the similarities in both cases suggest the same modus operandi.

In the case of the home invasion at Mrs Fenn's residence the fact that the intruder was in the act of exiting via the window illustrates that it was being used as an 'emergency' exit rather than an entry point.

It was thought he had a key to the apartment.  Recent revelations at the start of the new investigation regarding irregularities with the keys for the apartments, suggest that a key could have been used.to enter both 5G and 5A.

Similarly it would appear that as in the case of 5G - the window was opened to be used as an emergency exit should the intruder be disturbed.


- SNIP - Mrs Fenn has told police how she scared off an intruder she found in her apartment in the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz in the weeks leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.

There was no sign of a break-in and police believe he may have used a key to get in through the front door.

The terrified mother was watching TV in the evening and went to investigate a noise coming from her bedroom.

Mrs Fenn, who has lived in Praia da Luz for a number of years, discovered a man scrambling out of the window.

She tried to grab his ankle but he escaped. She reported the incident to police but did not believe anything was taken.

 - SNIP - "She was shaking with fear and called the police.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

That the intruder at 5G had a key is pure conjecture..

I think he entered 5G through the window using the 3 stage method (see heriberto video).

Surprised no-one has said yet:
 "Ah - but 5G is not on the ground floor - a burglar wishing to get in via a window would need a ladder or roof climbing skills to get to the outside of the window in order to use the 3 stage method - gotcha!".

If anyone does, I will explain why that objection is based on a wrong assumption.

[pathfinder73]

That the intruder at 5G had a key is pure conjecture..

I think he entered 5G through the window using the 3 stage method (see heriberto video).

Surprised no-one has said yet:
 "Ah - but 5G is not on the ground floor - a burglar wishing to get in via a window would need a ladder or roof climbing skills to get to the outside of the window in order to use the 3 stage method - gotcha!".

If anyone does, I will explain why that objection is based on a wrong assumption.

Fenn's window/shutters would have been open as she was in the apartment at the time so he could enter. There is no evidence of the window/shutters being open at 5A unless you think MW leave their apartments unsecure when they are empty.

Finger/Thumb prints revealing shutters being raised from the inside.

[pegasus]

Fenn's window/shutters would have been open as she was in the apartment at the time so he could enter....

We agree here I think to the extent that the intruder at 5G possibly entered via the same window he exited by?

[pathfinder73]

"We know that the window was cleaned the previous day -. However, Kate says she never opened the window. And most importantly, there were no signs of breaking in." (Amaral)

So the cleaner on WED left it open after cleaning it? I doubt it because nobody used it  8-)(--) All evidence points to the window/shutters being opened from the inside.

[pathfinder73]

We agree here I think to the extent that the intruder at 5G possibly entered via the same window he exited by?

Yes that makes sense to go out the same way he came in.

[pegasus]

"We know that the window was cleaned the previous day -. However, Kate says she never opened the window. And most importantly, there were no signs of breaking in." (Amaral)

So the cleaner on WED left it open after cleaning it? I doubt it because nobody used it  8-)(--) All evidence points to the window/shutters being opened from the inside.

IMO the situation in the north bedroom after (and possibly also before) the Wednesday cleaner visit was:
the shutter was completely down,
the sliding window was in the fully closed position,
the lower button on the window handle was in the depressed position,
and the upper button on the window handle was in the raised position.
The mechanical working of these two buttons is demonstrated excellently in Mr Amaral's film.

[pegasus]

Yes that makes sense to go out the same way he came in.

Fantastic.
A pleasure to see someone not going for the "oh the 5G intruder must have had a key" assumption.
There are maybe about half a dozen windows at 5G, but it is possible to work out exactly which one of those windows the 5G intruder used.
The clues are that 5G is not on the ground floor, and that Mrs F does not mention any roof-climbing or ladder-use by the intruder. And so, looking at in external photos of the building, the exact window used by intruder at 5G can be identified

[Miss Taken Identity]

It was Gerry's sister who said Madeline is missing and the window was 'jemmied' according to Kate (implying a jemmy tool or similar was used) this would give the impression a stranger entered the flat and abducted their daughter coming in and going out of the window.

 note: they did not admit at this early stage that the patio door was left open.

The jemmied shutter claim was instantly dismissed by police and experts due to the lack of any evidence.  no foot prints in the soil below-no scuff marks on the white rendering outside-the difficulty in carrying a child out a small window without,banging her head or feet-waking her up, leaving ANY of Madeline's DNA.

Smoke and mirrors I'm afraid.

Kate's prints were on the window, because she opened it. Simples.

[pegasus]

This is likely to be the window through which an intruder entered and exited flat 5G.
(marked in photo by a yellow cross)

[a.baker]

It wasn't just GM's sister though. There is a statement in the files by a male friend of KM's that states she phoned him in the middle of the night to tell him that Madeleine had been 'abducted' and that the shutters had been jemmied open etc.

[VIXTE]

I don't think he-she either entered or left through the window.
Remember, there were no DNA or particle findings to prove this.

[pegasus]

I don't think he-she either entered or left through the window....

Here I completely agree with you.
At 5A the window was open but absolutely no-one entered or left through the window.

[pegasus]

A mention of 4 burglaries of OC apartments in 2006

"Travel Date: August 2006. i have just returned from our holiday with Thomas cook ocean club apartments praia da luz ... we got there on the 19th aug and by the 20th we had been burgled we found out later 3 other familys had allso been burgled from the same apartments"

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aZ0ZSkv559QJ:www.holidays-uncovered.co.uk/portugal/algarve/praia-da-luz/ocean-club-page-2.html%3FsortOrder%3DsubmittedAsc+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk