Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 284457 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2040 on: August 26, 2019, 07:01:37 PM »
His problem is probably his MP's refusal to work with their leader. They have made the party ineffective imo. Theresa May had a similar problem and Johnson has yet to test his party support.
Of course.  St Jeremy is blameless.  His problem is he’s a waste of space, has alienated his MPs and erstwhile Labour party supporters, and has been unable to offer any reasonable attempt at an opposition, particularly over Brexit on which subject he has been virtually silent, or at best confused. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 07:20:41 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2041 on: August 27, 2019, 07:42:40 AM »
Of course.  St Jeremy is blameless.  His problem is he’s a waste of space, has alienated his MPs and erstwhile Labour party supporters, and has been unable to offer any reasonable attempt at an opposition, particularly over Brexit on which subject he has been virtually silent, or at best confused.

Anyone who thinks politicians will abandon their party politics and their relentless pursuit of power in favour of pulling together for 'the good of the country' is deluded imo.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2042 on: August 27, 2019, 07:49:11 AM »
Hilarious!

68 dumb-f..k reasons for leaving the EU
View all posts by Andy Bodle13th October 2016
Brexit illoThe UK’s vote to exit the European Union has created many uncertainties. Will the country be better off, or worse? Is the UK a xenophobic, retrogressive nation, or a brave, proud, forward-looking one? Can the Conservatives and Labour remain united in this time of turmoil? Will anyone be able to afford to go on holiday again?

The result has made one thing crystal clear: the UK is a bitterly divided nation, along lines of age, race, region, class, wealth and education. If we are going to begin to heal these divisions, it is crucial that we try to establish exactly why it is that 51.9% of those who voted decided that being outside the European Union was better than being in it. Once we have a better understanding of these grievances, we can address them and – hopefully, one day – resolve them.

To this end, I have begun compiling a list of reasons given by Leavers, gathered from Twitter, Facebook, comment threads, discussion forums and friends.

1. “Because of all the EU laws that we have no say in.”
“Name one.”
“Erm …”
“Come on, what are these laws are that you won’t have to obey any more that made you vote for this short-term economic hit? Can you name one?”
“I wouldn’t be able to, no.” (Caller to James O’Brien’s LBC radio show)

2. “As a protest vote.”

3. “Because I want it to be a close result.”

4. “It [Sunderland] already is [a giant jobcentre]. That’s why I voted Leave, to put everyone else in the shit like us.” (Twitter)

5. “To stick it to the toffs.”

6. “To give Cameron a bloody nose.” (Express website)

7. “To give Cameron a better negotiating position.”

8. “Because the EU closed the coalmines.” [The EU had nothing to do with the closing of the coalmines.]

9. “Because I thought we had been in long enough.”

10. “Because I had the hump.”

11. “Because now our lads will get out of prison, cos there will be jobs for them.”

12. “The main reason I voted out was because the EU parliament aren’t elected representatives. The second is, they pass laws that affect us, but we aren’t given a say. Third, we need to sort our own house out.” (J, on Facebook, giving exactly the same – factually wrong – reason in three different ways)

13. “Because I felt uncomfortable when a group of brown people got on the bus the other day.” (Family member)

14. “Because the EU made them change Marathons to Snickers.” [That was Mars’s decision, not the EU’s.]

15. “Because they banned our bendy bananas.” (Express website) [The EU introduced a law stipulating that bananas should be given different classifications depending on their curvature. No fruit was ever banned – it was just a different classification system.]

16. “Because fishermen now won’t have to throw fish back in the water and Muslim women will no longer be told by their husbands not to wear make-up.” (Caller to LBC) [The exact effect of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU will have on fishing waters and quotas must wait until negotiations are complete, but we will still need agreements with our neighbours, and limits to prevent overfishing, which our neighbours will probably wish to remain broadly the same.]

17. “Because I’ve lived here all my life, and when I was growing up, that street over there was filled with shops.” (TV documentary)

18. “To stop the Muslims immigrating here.” [Migration is unrestricted within the EU. But individual nations are responsible for setting their own limits on immigration from non-EU countries, such as those where the majority of citizens are Muslims. Leaving the EU will have no effect on the number of Muslims coming to the UK.]

19. “Because I want our old lightbulbs back!” [The EU has placed restrictions on the sale of old-style incandescent lightbulbs in a bid to reduce energy wastage and slow global warming.]

20. “Because vaccines should not be mandatory.” [The EU has never passed any law making vaccination mandatory, even though vaccination is widely regarded as being a pretty good idea. Some European countries have done so of their own volition.]

21. “Because the Queen said.” (Pro-Brexit Facebook group)

22. “Because we should not be signing up to TTIP.” [TTIP is a trade deal between EU and America, which the EU has just put on hold. After the UK leaves the EU, most commentators believe it will sign up to a similar deal with the US, probably with fewer checks and balances.]

23. “Because we are like Germany, and Germany isn’t in the EU.” [Germany was a founding member of the EU.]

24. “Because the country is full.”

25. “To annoy my wife.”

26. “It will be an adventure!”

27. “Because the value of the euro is going to go down.” [Even if it were true, this would not have a marked effect on the UK’s economy. Since the vote, sterling is down 18% against the dollar and 15% against the euro.]

28. “So that I can get cheap photovoltaic panels from China.”

29. “Because otherwise, 7 million Turks will come over here.” (LBC caller) [Turkey would never have been able to join the EU so long as Britain used its veto.]

30. “Because I am fed up with being ruled by unelected bureaucrats.” [The EU parliament is directly elected in regular European elections. The European commission –basically the civil service – recruits its own members.]

Screenshot of online conversation
The people have spoken.
31. “Because I didn’t want my sons to have to join a European army.” [The EU would never have formed an army so long as Britain exercised its veto. Even if it did, conscription would be a political and practical impossibility.]

32. “Because there’s too many Pakistan people in Glasgow.” [I repeat: EU membership has no bearing on immigration from outside the EU.]

33. “Because it takes more than 5 litres of water to flush my shit away.”

34. “Because EU taxes are making our petrol more expensive than everywhere else in Europe.” [No, those would be taxes imposed by the UK’s government. The EU plays no part in setting national tax rates.]

35. “To send them women in the headscarves back home. One of them stole my mum’s purse.”

36. “Because I don’t like what the EU is doing to Africa.”

37. “Because I’m scared of black people. They’re so physical.” (mother-in-law of member of Facebook group) [The mechanism by which leaving the EU will rid the UK of black people is unclear.]

38. “I don’t want to send money to Greece. I don’t care about Greece.”

39. “Because the EU does nothing for us.” [Estimates of the value of EU membership to the UK vary from £31bn to £92bn per year.]

40. “Because the EU has devoted 26,911 words to the regulation of cabbages.” [Seems quite a minor thing to sacrifice 20% of your pay packet for, but in any case, it’s bollocks. There are at present zero words in EU legislation specifically governing the production or sale of cabbages.]

41. “Because our prisons are full of Polish rapists.” [As of March 2016, there were 965 Polish nationals in British prisons. That’s out of a total Polish population of just over 800,000 — so 0.12% of all Poles here are convicted criminals. The total number of prisoners is around 95,000; about 0.14% of the population as a whole. I can’t find any figures broken down into both ethnicity and crime.]

42. “Because the roads in Oxfordshire are full of potholes.” [Technically, such matters fall within the local council’s purview.]

43. “Because the EU is anti-semitic.”

44. “So that we can go back to the way Britain was in the 50s.”

45. “Because they sold off the water, gas and electricity.” [Once again, that would be the work of the UK government, not the EU.]

46. “Because I couldn’t decide, and my boyfriend voted Remain.”

47. “Because schools are no longer allowed to hold nativity plays in case they offend Moslems.”

48. “Because the EU spent £13m on art last year.”

49. “Because they never vote for us in Eurovision.”

50. “Because if we stop all the immigrants using the NHS, it will work properly again.”

51. “So we don’t have to queue at the doctor’s.” [There is no clear consensus on the impact of immigration on the health service. Undoubtedly, more people in a country means more people to treat. But it is widely agreed that migrants to the UK are on average younger and healthier than the local population, that inward migration is good for the economy, which gives us more money to spend on the NHS, and that without migrant workers – 24% of doctors and 12% of nurses were not born in the UK – the health service would collapse. Besides, the ageing resident population is by far the biggest strain on health services.]

52. “Because I want a more powerful hoover.” (Facebook group)

53. “Because the EU is going to ban toasters, and I love toast.” (BBC interviewee) [The EU has never threatened to ban toasters. It is, however, considering a limit on the amount of energy that household appliances can use, in a bid to reduce the effect on the environment.]

54. “So we can have our electrical sockets low down by the skirting rather than have to put them little higher up the wall.”

55. “Because they are building houses for Filipinos and it’s blocking the view from my kitchen window.”

56. “Because I don’t understand politics. This is what my friends suggested.”

57. “Because there’s too much traffic in Sittingbourne.”

58.“Because they tell me I need scaffolding to clean my guttering.” [Really not sure where this information came from.]

59. “Because I fancied a change.” (Caller to Radio 4 programme)

60. “My uncle voted Leave because his sister told him to.”

61. “Because the European Parliament building is the same shape as the Tower of Babel, which is anti-Christ.” (Facebook group’s family member)

62. “So all the f..king Chinks will leave.” [China is not in the EU.]

63. “Because the ensuing recession is going to bring house prices down, and I can’t afford to buy a house.”

64. “Because I want to buy sweets in ounces, not grammes.” [The UK converted to the metric system two years before it joined the EU. Further, retailers can still sell in imperial units, alongside the metric ones, if they so desire.]

65. “Because they don’t pay for NHS prescriptions in Wales and Scotland, and that’s not fair.” (Manchester woman) [Again, precisely diddly squat to do with the EU.]

66. “So that I don’t have to pay the bedroom tax.” [The bedroom tax was imposed not by the EU, but by … oh, can’t you f..king guess by now?]

67. “Because I’m fed up of the French burning our lamb.” (Frank, Twitter)

68. “Because I want to use my teabag twice and the EU won’t let me.” (Aunt of friend of commenter) [Another falsehood peddled by Boris Johnson]

Thanks for contributing and helping to turn a sad list into a truly depressing one. I’m turning comments off here now because I’m getting spammed to death, but you can still add your gems to the version on Medium if you like.

Author: Andy Bodle
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2043 on: August 27, 2019, 08:30:20 AM »
One definition of a country is 'all the people who live in a country'. In recent years the UK has not been run for the benefit of all those who live here, especially the poor. Corbyn's aim is to redress the balance, which is only a bad thing if you're one of those who has no empathy with those who's lives are a constant struggle.
St Jeremy has spoken

“Our country is heading into a crisis this autumn, with Boris Johnson’s Tories driving us towards a no-deal cliff edge. No deal would destroy people’s jobs, push up food prices in the shops and open our NHS to takeover by US private corporations.

We will do everything necessary to stop a disastrous no deal for which this government has no mandate. That’s why on Tuesday I am hosting a meeting of opposition parties to discuss how we can stop Johnson’s reckless rush for a no-deal Brexit. The stakes couldn’t be higher”.

So where do you stand on him now?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2044 on: August 27, 2019, 09:42:36 AM »
“Mr Corbyn has said if he wins a no-confidence vote, he will delay Brexit, call a snap election and campaign for another referendum”.  Surely anyone who puts “the will of the people” above all else must be disgusted by this Corbyn pledge?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2045 on: August 27, 2019, 11:25:14 AM »
St Jeremy has spoken

“Our country is heading into a crisis this autumn, with Boris Johnson’s Tories driving us towards a no-deal cliff edge. No deal would destroy people’s jobs, push up food prices in the shops and open our NHS to takeover by US private corporations.

We will do everything necessary to stop a disastrous no deal for which this government has no mandate. That’s why on Tuesday I am hosting a meeting of opposition parties to discuss how we can stop Johnson’s reckless rush for a no-deal Brexit. The stakes couldn’t be higher”.

So where do you stand on him now?

He's entitled to his opinion, but he's wrong about Johnson having no mandate imo.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2046 on: August 27, 2019, 03:55:01 PM »
He's entitled to his opinion, but he's wrong about Johnson having no mandate imo.
What about his position on stopping a no deal Brexit and wanting a second referendum?  Got nothing critical to say about that I suppose?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2047 on: August 27, 2019, 04:48:57 PM »
What about his position on stopping a no deal Brexit and wanting a second referendum?  Got nothing critical to say about that I suppose?

I think he's also being undemocratic. The referendum doesn't need repeating.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2048 on: August 27, 2019, 05:13:49 PM »
I think he's also being undemocratic. The referendum doesn't need repeating.
How do you square that with your belief that his aim is to redress the balance between rich and poor?  Could it be that he genuinely believes a no deal Brexit really will be disastrous for the poorest in society hence his avowal to stop it happening?  Yet despite seeming to believe Corbyn has the best interests of the poor at heart you think Brexit must happen no matter how many suffer because that’s what the people voted for?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2049 on: August 27, 2019, 07:34:02 PM »
How do you square that with your belief that his aim is to redress the balance between rich and poor?  Could it be that he genuinely believes a no deal Brexit really will be disastrous for the poorest in society hence his avowal to stop it happening?  Yet despite seeming to believe Corbyn has the best interests of the poor at heart you think Brexit must happen no matter how many suffer because that’s what the people voted for?

Just because you (and Jeremy Corbyn) think a no deal Brexit would be a catastrophe doesn't mean it's true.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2050 on: August 27, 2019, 08:45:28 PM »
Just because you (and Jeremy Corbyn) think a no deal Brexit would be a catastrophe doesn't mean it's true.
Doesn’t mean it’s false either.  The fact is - it’s a risk, its short, medium and long term consequences can only be guessed at, which in my book is not a very responsible way to govern, especially as all the confidential forecasts from the government’s own advisors are not exactly a ringing endorsement of future health, wealth and happiness.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2051 on: August 28, 2019, 07:11:24 AM »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2052 on: August 28, 2019, 08:37:32 AM »
Doesn’t mean it’s false either.  The fact is - it’s a risk, its short, medium and long term consequences can only be guessed at, which in my book is not a very responsible way to govern, especially as all the confidential forecasts from the government’s own advisors are not exactly a ringing endorsement of future health, wealth and happiness.

The UK joined the Common Market in 1973 and the Electorate approved that decision in a referendum in 1975. Since then things have changed significantly. In my opinion successive governments agreed to greater and greater integration in Europe than the economic integration initially agreed upon.

 According to Vernon Bogdanor there was “a clear constitutional rationale for requiring a referendum” on the question of whether to sign the Maastricht Treaty. In my opinion it was irresponsible to commit the UK to greater integration in the areas of foreign policy, military, criminal justice, and judicial cooperation without allowing the electorate their say.

For Bogdanor it was unconstitutional because;

‘The Legislative cannot transfer the power of making laws to any other hands. For it being but a delegated power from the People, they who have it cannot pass it to others.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2053 on: August 28, 2019, 11:25:40 AM »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Baz

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #2054 on: August 28, 2019, 03:11:42 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 03:30:27 PM by Baz »