Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?

[Eleanor]

In this imagined scenario, Madeleine is fast approaching 16,its likely where ever she is to have been brought up in a vastly different culture if abroad to Britain, just suppose she's well looked after, educated, fast approaching higher education no doubt having learnt the mother tongue of where this imagined scenario happens to be, do you think its fair on the girl and her parents for OG just to observe and then presumably take her away from it.Do you think its likely that where ever your imagined surveillance is being conducted its with the full authority of the local forces, if not then its illegal.
The FOI regarding OG only showed 5 return flights to Portugal in the year 2017/18 with a breakdown of costs of accommodation of £811,obviously not staying long

So every Private Detective who ver watched anyone has to get permission from the local Police Force?

[Brietta]

Taking this a little further, at the point that she reaches the age of majority, UK police will have no authority to intervene in her life at all.
They need to get a move on.
IMO

I seem to remember a senior police officer saying that no matter how Madeleine left the holiday apartment she had been abducted.

Don't you think in the scenario you repeat that the people who have allegedly given her the ideal childhood and adolescence described might have some pertinent answers to give to questions asked about that?

A three year old child is not a commodity who can be appropriated planned or on a whim and spirited away from all she knows and loves by anyone as if she were a puppy dog.

[jassi]

I seem to remember a senior police officer saying that no matter how Madeleine left the holiday apartment she had been abducted.

Don't you think in the scenario you repeat that the people who have allegedly given her the ideal childhood and adolescence described might have some pertinent answers to give to questions asked about that?

A three year old child is not a commodity who can be appropriated planned or on a whim and spirited away from all she knows and loves by anyone as if she were a puppy dog.

They may or may not have, but not necessarily Madeleine.
These hypothetical people may well be beyond the reach of OG in any case.

[Brietta]

They may or may not have, but not necessarily Madeleine.
These hypothetical people may well be beyond the reach of OG in any case.

The ongoing police investigation into Madeleine's case is not hypothetical. 
Do you think that the men and women of Scotland Yard working on it over the years have not been equally as proficient at their jobs as Sutton and his team were at theirs?

[Angelo222]

The ongoing police investigation into Madeleine's case is not hypothetical. 
Do you think that the men and women of Scotland Yard working on it over the years have not been equally as proficient at their jobs as Sutton and his team were at theirs?

I tend to judge by results and in this particular case those have been abysmal.

[G-Unit]

The ongoing police investigation into Madeleine's case is not hypothetical. 
Do you think that the men and women of Scotland Yard working on it over the years have not been equally as proficient at their jobs as Sutton and his team were at theirs?

A proficient policeman raised concerns about Peter Sutcliffe but was ignored by his superiors.

[Brietta]

I tend to judge by results and in this particular case those have been abysmal.

Only the police know where they are in Madeleine's case and I think that is exactly as it should be.

[Brietta]

A proficient policeman raised concerns about Peter Sutcliffe but was ignored by his superiors.

If memory serves me well the senior investigating officer had a particular obsession with a recorded message which may have sent the investigation off track rather as in a similar fashion the senior investigating officer in Madeleine's case ploughed his furrow into a muddy ditch.

Snip
  ... the other was a hoarding promoting the ‘Help Us Stop The Ripper from Killing Again’ campaign.

That campaign invited the public to look at the killer’s handwriting and listen to his voice.

But it was not the killer’s handwriting or the killer’s voice - but that of a hoaxer. The black ink scrawl and Wearside accent belonged to John Samuel Humble, who pretended to be the Ripper in three letters and an audio tape sent to Assistant Chief Constable George Oldfield.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-manchester-14385884

I do not recall hearing anything at all about a 'proficient policeman' raising particular concerns about Sutcliffe although I did recall the consecutively numbered new five pound note being a retrospective 'missed chance'.
I do know that the archaic filing system in force at the time just was not equipped to cross reference effectively the vast amount of material being entered.

Please provide a cite to substantiate your claim.

[Brietta]

Detective who warned Peter Sutcliffe was Yorkshire Ripper reveals "thunderbolt" moment when murderer was finally arrested
Detective Andy Laptew was a junior officer on the inquiry who interviewed Sutcliffe and felt 'alarm bells ringing', but his concerns were ignored and three more women were murdered

BySteve MyallDeputy Features Editor
00:01, 21 AUG 2016

A detective who questioned Peter Sutcliffe during the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper but whose concerns about him were ignored has spoken of how the "bottom fell out of his world" when he was finally caught.

Andy Laptew was a junior detective who interviewed Peter Sutcliffe and flagged him up as a serious suspect, but his warnings fell on deaf ears.

He spotted a string of similarities between Sutcliffe and the suspect identified by a victim who survived an attack.

Yet when he spoke to a senior officer he was not listened to as the inquiry was focused the killer being from the North East due to a tape recording sent from a man claiming to be the killer who has accent from that area.

The tape later turned out to be a hoax and contributed to delays in the investigation.

Sutcliffe murdered 13 women in the 1970s and 1980s.

A review after Sutcliffe was caught also criticised a failure to properly file and collect hundreds of thousands of reports about the murders in the 1970s.

Photo-fit of the Yorkshire Ripper looked strikingly similar to Peter Sutcliffe (Image: Youtube/idj4)

Speaking in a BBC Radio Four documentary Mr Laptew said he was concerned about Sutcliffe when he met him and when he later found out he was right it felt like a "thunderbolt" through his heart.

He said he was ostracised by officers he had thought were friends after reports criticised the force and painted him as a lone voice.

Speaking about his meeting with Sutcliffe, he said: "I wasn't happy with Peter Sutcliffe, there were a lot of alarm bells ringing.

“The reason we actually went to see Sutcliffe was because his vehicle had been sighted in three separate red light areas.

“He had a striking resemblance to the photo-fit of the woman who was attacked in Buslingthorpe Lane, in Leeds. He had a gap in his teeth which again was indicative of the the attacker of two of the women who were killed.

“He was in the suspect occupation group – in that he was a heavy goods vehicle driver.

“I said to my colleague 'why don't we bring him in?” and he said 'no we have been told specifically do not bring anybody in'.

“In fact I'll tell you what happened I took it direct to Dick Holland (Superintendant in charge of the enquiry), a man who I had put on a pedestal and hero worshiped

“Has he got a Geordie accent he said. 'No he's local' I said, 'he's from Bradford, he's a dead ringer for the photo-fit.'

"Then he said 'If anybody mentions the photo-fits to me again they will be doing traffic for the rest of their service.

"I could have crawled under the crack in the door."

Asked what he felt when Sutcliffe was finally caught and he discovered his suspicious had been right, he said: "How do you describe a thunderbolt to your heart, the bottom had fallen out of my world.

"I got in my car and dashed up to the police station, opened my locker door and looked through my notebooks and there was his name 'Peter William Sutcliffe - not satisfied with this man - full report submitted'.

"I didn't know what to do, had I done right, had I done wrong, was there any more I could have done and you tend to blame yourself because three women had died since I submitted that report.

"I had suggested he be looked at by a senior officer with a more intimate knowledge of the case."

After Sutcliffe's arrest police realised they had questioned him NINE times but the reports had not been linked.

Mr Laptew said: "The next thing there were three inch headlines saying I was the lone voice crying out in the wilderness against West Yorkshire Police and I was a pariah when all I had ever done was display loyalty.

"People I thought were friends ignored me, senior officers made life a little difficulty for me and instead of speaking to me they would grunt at me.

"I got really really upset by all this, it's made me anti authority."

Sutcliffe was caught when he was stopped by police in a car with stolen number plates with a prostitute and a hammer and knife was found at the scene.

He is still in prison serving 20 life sentences.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/detective-who-warned-peter-sutcliffe-8665987

[G-Unit]

Knowing that the police don't always get it right I think it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about Op Grange. There's nothing to suggest they have progressed or that they will do so. In my opinion those pinning their hopes on OG clutching at straws.

[ShiningInLuz]

The ongoing police investigation into Madeleine's case is not hypothetical. 
Do you think that the men and women of Scotland Yard working on it over the years have not been equally as proficient at their jobs as Sutton and his team were at theirs?

There is no evidence to support the idea that OG has visited Luz, the June 2014 triple dig aside.

When the Stephen Lawrence case was re-investigated as a cold case, the SIO felt correct procedure was to return to examine the event scene personally, and to examine it in considerable detail, to gain an understanding of the crime.

This is another example of why OG appears to be unfit for purpose.

A point that interested me was sufficient data had been loaded into HOLMES incorrectly that the SIO decided to junk it all and start again.  I don't know what OG have or have not done re HOLMES, but this makes 2 major investigations where the SIO has been critical of the system.

[barrier]

Taking this a little further, at the point that she reaches the age of majority, UK police will have no authority to intervene in her life at all.
They need to get a move on.
IMO

If she's being held in a hellish lair its even crueller just to observe.

[barrier]

So every Private Detective who ver watched anyone has to get permission from the local Police Force?

Are you suggesting the HO is funding these which is what we are on about,funding that is.

[barrier]

There is no evidence to support the idea that OG has visited Luz, the June 2014 triple dig aside.

When the Stephen Lawrence case was re-investigated as a cold case, the SIO felt correct procedure was to return to examine the event scene personally, and to examine it in considerable detail, to gain an understanding of the crime.

This is another example of why OG appears to be unfit for purpose.

A point that interested me was sufficient data had been loaded into HOLMES incorrectly that the SIO decided to junk it all and start again.  I don't know what OG have or have not done re HOLMES, but this makes 2 major investigations where the SIO has been critical of the system.

There is an interesting article in the mail which brings into stark reality just what OG hope to achieve from afar.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6236101/Britains-15-unsolved-murders-baffling-police-today.html

"From TV presenter Jill Dando to estate agent Suzy Lamplugh: Britain's top 15 unsolved murders which are still baffling police"

[Eleanor]

Are you suggesting the HO is funding these which is what we are on about,funding that is.

Horses for Courses.