Author Topic: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?  (Read 46644 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #600 on: February 04, 2019, 10:53:01 AM »
There is no evidence to support the idea that OG has visited Luz, the June 2014 triple dig aside.

When the Stephen Lawrence case was re-investigated as a cold case, the SIO felt correct procedure was to return to examine the event scene personally, and to examine it in considerable detail, to gain an understanding of the crime.

This is another example of why OG appears to be unfit for purpose.

A point that interested me was sufficient data had been loaded into HOLMES incorrectly that the SIO decided to junk it all and start again.  I don't know what OG have or have not done re HOLMES, but this makes 2 major investigations where the SIO has been critical of the system.

There was at one time I believe no recognition that the Porto Judicial Police had reviewed Madeleine's case and had carried out a reconstruction in Luz as part of their review so discrete were they about it.
What was to prevent a Scotland Yard team renting holiday accommodation back in the review days and being as discrete about it as were the PJ?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #601 on: February 04, 2019, 11:00:50 AM »

Are you suggesting the HO is funding these which is what we are on about,funding that is.

Actually I think we are supposed to be discussing the similarities between Sutton's investigation as outlined in his documentary of his book and Madeleine's case.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #602 on: February 04, 2019, 11:07:23 AM »
Actually I think we are supposed to be discussing the similarities between Sutton's investigation as outlined in his documentary of his book and Madeleine's case.

Best ask an editor to sort it out then,we'll be back to about one page.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #603 on: February 04, 2019, 11:10:34 AM »
Actually I think we are supposed to be discussing the similarities between Sutton's investigation as outlined in his documentary of his book and Madeleine's case.

I thought we were comparing the two;
Sutton's investigation was successful. Operation Grange's investigation is unsuccessful so far.
Sutton had a free hand, Operation Grange was limited by it's remit.
 
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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #604 on: February 04, 2019, 11:43:19 AM »
I thought we were comparing the two;
Sutton's investigation was successful. Operation Grange's investigation is unsuccessful so far.
Sutton had a free hand, Operation Grange was limited by it's remit.

There was a stage in Sutton's investigation where exactly the same accusation of lack of success could be levelled.

Sutton's investigation did not allow him a free hand insofar that he was bound by restrictions of having to look for and follow whatever evidence might have been available to him.
His remit was to do that within the confines of the law and by following procedure to be able to present a case against a suspect to allow for arrest and subsequent trial.

It is utterly risible to imagine that the remit of the investigation into Madeleine's case limits police procedure to allow exactly the same freedom to follow the evidence as enjoyed by Sutton.

That is what the police do ... and it is what Helen Monteiro's team did both at review stage and into the reopening of Madeleine's case.

I doubt very much that Sutton embarked on his successful investigation without casting an eye over all the evidence already gathered and deciding what to keep to work on and what to set aside.  I think it is ludicrous to imagine that wasn't done in Madeleine's case and there seemed to be plenty of leads which just had not been followed through for them to be going on with.
So what evidence is it you think the PJ investigation of the parents and Robert Murat missed and what is it that that you think Monteiro's review team missed that directed them open a case which enabled them to investigate a stranger abduction?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #605 on: February 04, 2019, 12:09:29 PM »
There was a stage in Sutton's investigation where exactly the same accusation of lack of success could be levelled.

Sutton's investigation did not allow him a free hand insofar that he was bound by restrictions of having to look for and follow whatever evidence might have been available to him.
His remit was to do that within the confines of the law and by following procedure to be able to present a case against a suspect to allow for arrest and subsequent trial.

It is utterly risible to imagine that the remit of the investigation into Madeleine's case limits police procedure to allow exactly the same freedom to follow the evidence as enjoyed by Sutton.

That is what the police do ... and it is what Helen Monteiro's team did both at review stage and into the reopening of Madeleine's case.

I doubt very much that Sutton embarked on his successful investigation without casting an eye over all the evidence already gathered and deciding what to keep to work on and what to set aside.  I think it is ludicrous to imagine that wasn't done in Madeleine's case and there seemed to be plenty of leads which just had not been followed through for them to be going on with.
So what evidence is it you think the PJ investigation of the parents and Robert Murat missed and what is it that that you think Monteiro's review team missed that directed them open a case which enabled them to investigate a stranger abduction?

Ludicrous to imagine?  Risible?  Monteiro?

Surely you should have whacked a ginormous IMO around your speculation?
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #606 on: February 04, 2019, 01:03:25 PM »
There was a stage in Sutton's investigation where exactly the same accusation of lack of success could be levelled.

Sutton's investigation did not allow him a free hand insofar that he was bound by restrictions of having to look for and follow whatever evidence might have been available to him.
His remit was to do that within the confines of the law and by following procedure to be able to present a case against a suspect to allow for arrest and subsequent trial.

It is utterly risible to imagine that the remit of the investigation into Madeleine's case limits police procedure to allow exactly the same freedom to follow the evidence as enjoyed by Sutton.

That is what the police do ... and it is what Helen Monteiro's team did both at review stage and into the reopening of Madeleine's case.

I doubt very much that Sutton embarked on his successful investigation without casting an eye over all the evidence already gathered and deciding what to keep to work on and what to set aside.  I think it is ludicrous to imagine that wasn't done in Madeleine's case and there seemed to be plenty of leads which just had not been followed through for them to be going on with.
So what evidence is it you think the PJ investigation of the parents and Robert Murat missed and what is it that that you think Monteiro's review team missed that directed them open a case which enabled them to investigate a stranger abduction?

On what basis do you state that the PJ were investigating stranger abduction. AFAIK that has never been said by anyone in authority. Please provide your source.

 "Portugal's Attorney General has determined the reopening of the inquiry relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann following a request from the Policia Judiciaria."

A spokesman for the Attorney General's office said she was unable to comment on the new lines of inquiry.

She said: "I do not know what they are and how significant they are and even if I did I couldn't comment because of the secrecy order.

"However it is clear from the statement we have released that the decision to reopen the Madeleine McCann investigation has been based on new elements that indicate it's a justifiable action."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/438868/Portuguese-police-reopen-Madeleine-McCann-investigation
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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #607 on: February 04, 2019, 01:25:55 PM »
Ludicrous to imagine?  Risible?  Monteiro?

Surely you should have whacked a ginormous IMO around your speculation?

What speculation?

Monteiro had sent a team to Luz prior to the investigation being reopened in 2013 ... or that police work involves following evidence?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #608 on: February 04, 2019, 02:02:40 PM »
On what basis do you state that the PJ were investigating stranger abduction. AFAIK that has never been said by anyone in authority. Please provide your source.

 "Portugal's Attorney General has determined the reopening of the inquiry relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann following a request from the Policia Judiciaria."

A spokesman for the Attorney General's office said she was unable to comment on the new lines of inquiry.

She said: "I do not know what they are and how significant they are and even if I did I couldn't comment because of the secrecy order.

"However it is clear from the statement we have released that the decision to reopen the Madeleine McCann investigation has been based on new elements that indicate it's a justifiable action."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/438868/Portuguese-police-reopen-Madeleine-McCann-investigation

Groundhog day yet again?

Seriously though ... do you ever bother to read any of the links I post?  Here is one I did earlier ... 2015 to be exact
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3699.msg253733#msg253733

Here is one tying in with that ...

Snip
A Polícia Judiciária (PJ) esclareceu nesta quarta-feira que a ligação entre o desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann e um homem que abusou sexualmente de cinco meninas no Algarve, entre 2004 e 2006, corresponde à linha de investigação descoberta pela equipa daquela polícia, criada no Porto, em Março de 2011, para reanalisar o caso, e que fundamentou o pedido de reabertura do inquérito do caso Maddie, em Outubro do ano passado.

The Judiciary Police said Wednesday that the link between the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and a man who sexually abused five girls in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006 corresponds to the line of investigation discovered by the police team, Porto in March 2011 to re-examine the case, which provided the basis for the request to reopen the Maddie case in October last year.

https://www.publico.pt/2014/03/19/sociedade/noticia/pj-reabriu-inquerito-maddie-ha-meses-por-causa-de-suspeito-procurado-agora-pelos-ingleses-1628961


Interestingly enough is that Colin Sutton concurs with the present investigators that Madeleine's abduction may not have been outwith the bounds of possibility.

Snip
A former Scotland Yard police officer also suggested that Maddie was kidnapped and trafficked to Mauritania in West Africa before being sold to a wealthy Middle Eastern family.

Former detective Colin Sutton told the Mirror: "Mauritania is certainly a possibility that needs to be explored."

"If anyone wanted to take the three-year-old girl to Africa, it would be the most obvious route to take."

"The infrastructure and the contacts to carry out the contraband of people already exist".

https://www.gnoticia.com.br/detetive-do-caso-madeleine-acusa-governo-de-acobertar-o-caso/


"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #609 on: February 04, 2019, 06:49:21 PM »
Groundhog day yet again?

Seriously though ... do you ever bother to read any of the links I post?  Here is one I did earlier ... 2015 to be exact
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3699.msg253733#msg253733

Here is one tying in with that ...

Snip
A Polícia Judiciária (PJ) esclareceu nesta quarta-feira que a ligação entre o desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann e um homem que abusou sexualmente de cinco meninas no Algarve, entre 2004 e 2006, corresponde à linha de investigação descoberta pela equipa daquela polícia, criada no Porto, em Março de 2011, para reanalisar o caso, e que fundamentou o pedido de reabertura do inquérito do caso Maddie, em Outubro do ano passado.

The Judiciary Police said Wednesday that the link between the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and a man who sexually abused five girls in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006 corresponds to the line of investigation discovered by the police team, Porto in March 2011 to re-examine the case, which provided the basis for the request to reopen the Maddie case in October last year.

https://www.publico.pt/2014/03/19/sociedade/noticia/pj-reabriu-inquerito-maddie-ha-meses-por-causa-de-suspeito-procurado-agora-pelos-ingleses-1628961


Interestingly enough is that Colin Sutton concurs with the present investigators that Madeleine's abduction may not have been outwith the bounds of possibility.

Snip
A former Scotland Yard police officer also suggested that Maddie was kidnapped and trafficked to Mauritania in West Africa before being sold to a wealthy Middle Eastern family.

Former detective Colin Sutton told the Mirror: "Mauritania is certainly a possibility that needs to be explored."

"If anyone wanted to take the three-year-old girl to Africa, it would be the most obvious route to take."

"The infrastructure and the contacts to carry out the contraband of people already exist".

https://www.gnoticia.com.br/detetive-do-caso-madeleine-acusa-governo-de-acobertar-o-caso/

I'm sorry but I see nothing saying that the PJ were investigating stranger abduction.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #610 on: February 04, 2019, 06:52:05 PM »
I'm sorry but I see nothing saying that the PJ were investigating stranger abduction.
You need to put your specs on then.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #611 on: February 04, 2019, 08:13:48 PM »
You need to put your specs on then.

If you can see it perhaps you would be so kinf as to tell me where it says the PJ were investigating stranger abduction?
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #612 on: February 05, 2019, 12:15:53 AM »
If you can see it perhaps you would be so kinf as to tell me where it says the PJ were investigating stranger abduction?
I don’t know how to be kinf but if you look again you will see that the Portuguese police were investigating a possible link between a sex attacker and Madeleine’s disappearance and it was this that formed the basis of the request to reopen the case.  If that is not investigating stranger abduction what would you call it?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #613 on: February 05, 2019, 07:41:50 AM »
I don’t know how to be kinf but if you look again you will see that the Portuguese police were investigating a possible link between a sex attacker and Madeleine’s disappearance and it was this that formed the basis of the request to reopen the case.  If that is not investigating stranger abduction what would you call it?

That, to me, is journalistic speculation, not a fact, but thank you for interpreting it for me.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #614 on: February 05, 2019, 08:29:36 AM »
That, to me, is journalistic speculation, not a fact, but thank you for interpreting it for me.
Which bit isn’t a fact?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly